Aviation, Health, Space and Car industry have only 3 certified languages that they use. Ada, C and C++. Ada is dying because there are way less young engineers who want to invest their future learning it. Then there is C and C++ but they dont offer memory safety and its really hard to master and its really hard and long (thats what she said) to certify the code when being audited for safety by a tier company.
Rust solves by default (no need to review) like 2/3 of the standard requirements those industries have and are that found in C and C++. Rust will soon be approved in this group by the car industry.
Im not a rust fan, but I have 3 things to say about rust.
Its fun to program like C++ having the peace of mind knowing the compiler is there helping.
You dont feel like youre defusing a bomb like when writing C.
Even though its a fun language to write, its also really hard to master, itd say 2 years to be really proficient with it. There is just so much knowledge.
These industries hire third parties to review c and c++ line per line to make sure it’s memory safe.
Rust by default forces you to write memory safe code, otherwise it won’t even compile. The rust compiler tells where is the problem and what it expects. No only for basic Type errors but also for concurrent code.
its the way the language was built. Im not sure its possible without breaking C/C++ which have like 35 years + in the making.
Also these concepts are have little to do with programing and more architectural designs. The designers are real engineers working on difficult concepts. All big brains tbh
Ah interesting. Thank you, you’re giving me something to read about that I never considered for crates. I guess I just assumed because of the scrutiny Rust was built with and continues to go through that it would also apply to verifying crates. I have definitely heard about it with NPM so it should have been obvious that it might not be any different for crates. Thanks again!
Any software can have security issues, including ones written in rust. Just because C/C++ allows one to shoot oneself in the foot doesn’t mean it’s something that’s commonly allowed by anyone with any skill, it’s just a bug like anything else. I swear, people advocating rust believe that it’s something intrinsic in C/C++ that allows such a thing regardless of what a developer does, and it’s getting tiresome.
Of course a good developer can avoid these problems for the most part. The point is that we want the bad developers to be forced to do things a safe way by default.
A language for noobs that encourages bad style and programming because you can’t shoot yourself in the foot as easily (but you totally still can)? That’s what all these fad languages seem to be, and more keep popping up and declaring themselves the future of programming all the time. Just wait, rust will be forgotten for some other fad language everyone will start using soon enough. Stop reworking everything into the fad language of the moment and just work on existing code.
I’m sorry but this reads like someone that hasn’t used Rust or hasn’t spent much time with it. You’re generalizing Rust with other languages while forgetting that some fads turn into standards.
If everyone stopped trying new things we’d never see progress.
I admit C++ ain’t safe, but wonder if there’s an alternative to going Rust. Don’t get me wrong, I love the language. But Rust is a beast on its own. I read here that game devs generally can’t adapt Rust because the language forces frequent refactoring, which doesn’t fit the business speed of game development.
The problem is bad programmers. You can write good C code but it takes more effort and security checking. You also can write vulnerable and sloppy Rust code.
Yet another security issue that Rust would solve.
Oh, we heard, Rust is the greatest invention since sliced bread. We heard it already. Like 65534 times.
So close to full 16-bit max. So close…
Yeah I figured he was going purposely for a memory overflow
Yeah we only need 2 brainRusts more to start seeing some fun.
Gah. I should have stated “I see what you did there.” instead. ;)
Aviation, Health, Space and Car industry have only 3 certified languages that they use. Ada, C and C++. Ada is dying because there are way less young engineers who want to invest their future learning it. Then there is C and C++ but they dont offer memory safety and its really hard to master and its really hard and long (thats what she said) to certify the code when being audited for safety by a tier company.
Rust solves by default (no need to review) like 2/3 of the standard requirements those industries have and are that found in C and C++. Rust will soon be approved in this group by the car industry.
Im not a rust fan, but I have 3 things to say about rust.
Rust is automotive certified since over half a year. https://ferrous-systems.com/blog/officially-qualified-ferrocene
Could you explain the “no need to review” part? I do keep hearing good things about Rust.
These industries hire third parties to review c and c++ line per line to make sure it’s memory safe. Rust by default forces you to write memory safe code, otherwise it won’t even compile. The rust compiler tells where is the problem and what it expects. No only for basic Type errors but also for concurrent code.
Is it not possible to build that functionality into C/++ compilers?
its the way the language was built. Im not sure its possible without breaking C/C++ which have like 35 years + in the making. Also these concepts are have little to do with programing and more architectural designs. The designers are real engineers working on difficult concepts. All big brains tbh
Whoa, Skippy. It’s not saving the world, it’s just coding properly.
Well no, those companies deal with really important subjects. Airplanes, car safety, chemotherapy machines, missiles, etc. Have a good day
Ada SPARK is not dying at all, it’s growing. It is used where formal proof is required like and Rust is nowhere near that!
I wonder how many folks are just refusing to use Rust to spite the Rust Evangelism Strike Team.
Rustaceans 🤝 Vegans
I wish there was a synonym for “evangelism” that began with a “u”.
Urge? Kinda dark and villainous feeling.
Upgrade! “The Rust Upgrade Strike Team! Upgrade Today!” Sounds very propagandistic, almost doublespeak.
Ultimatum? Mildly threatening.
Utopia? It has the self righteous feel.
Uhvangelism, hurhur.
Universalism?
I giggled, thank you.
user
I wait until cargo is actually secure.
What is insecure about it?
It doesn’t verify downloads are authentic. Its an issue with almost all programming dependency managers besides mature ones like Java’s Maven.
Python has been working with Facebook to fix this in pip for like a decade.
But obviously it shows that rust isn’t so concerned about security.
Ah interesting. Thank you, you’re giving me something to read about that I never considered for crates. I guess I just assumed because of the scrutiny Rust was built with and continues to go through that it would also apply to verifying crates. I have definitely heard about it with NPM so it should have been obvious that it might not be any different for crates. Thanks again!
I hate it when people talk about new technologies 🤬
Same. We should head back to ICQ!
eh, still beats Discord as far as I’m concerned
Yet another problem that actually updating your shit - which is trivially easy on enterprise Linux - would fix.
It’s part of the 95% of problems solved by actually updating your enterprise Linux host.
unattended-upgrades and forget about it
Tell me more (for real, I’m unfamiliar).
Its a Debian package that automatically upgraded packages (if they have pending security updates)
I run mine manually, good to know. Will check it out.
That requires that the patches be in the repos. With RHEL it might be a few months
Any software can have security issues, including ones written in rust. Just because C/C++ allows one to shoot oneself in the foot doesn’t mean it’s something that’s commonly allowed by anyone with any skill, it’s just a bug like anything else. I swear, people advocating rust believe that it’s something intrinsic in C/C++ that allows such a thing regardless of what a developer does, and it’s getting tiresome.
Of course a good developer can avoid these problems for the most part. The point is that we want the bad developers to be forced to do things a safe way by default.
But it is, do you not understand what rust brings compared to these two languages ?
A language for noobs that encourages bad style and programming because you can’t shoot yourself in the foot as easily (but you totally still can)? That’s what all these fad languages seem to be, and more keep popping up and declaring themselves the future of programming all the time. Just wait, rust will be forgotten for some other fad language everyone will start using soon enough. Stop reworking everything into the fad language of the moment and just work on existing code.
That assertion surprises me; I find C easier to use than Rust.
I’m sorry but this reads like someone that hasn’t used Rust or hasn’t spent much time with it. You’re generalizing Rust with other languages while forgetting that some fads turn into standards.
If everyone stopped trying new things we’d never see progress.
Edit: fixed typo
There are still slight advantages to C that probably will make some devs stick to it in specific cases
I don’t think it’s realistic to expect a rewrite of code that works. Maybe over time we can start implementing pieces in safer languages.
I admit C++ ain’t safe, but wonder if there’s an alternative to going Rust. Don’t get me wrong, I love the language. But Rust is a beast on its own. I read here that game devs generally can’t adapt Rust because the language forces frequent refactoring, which doesn’t fit the business speed of game development.
I don’t care for Rust because I like writing unsafe code. It’s fun. However, I would value the assurances it provides using software written in Rust.
The problem is bad programmers. You can write good C code but it takes more effort and security checking. You also can write vulnerable and sloppy Rust code.