Edit: Image description for Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
That’s an instance ban. Instance bans automatically issue community bans for local communities the user has been active in.
Ada, drag is sorry for sharing the screenshots. Drag didn’t think they were anything serious. Drag won’t share any screenshots without permission again.
Sharing DMs is a dick move.
Not if it is exposing admin/mod abuse.
good thing it wasn’t (source: i was the third party recipient of those shared DMs; they were fully irrelevant to admin/mod action, abusive or otherwise)
it absolutely is.
How so? On Lemmy, at least, they are absolutely not private. It is just a way for two users to communicate without cluttering up a thread or something. Not a way to communicate in secret.
EDIT: Oh, I missed the joke. DM = Dick Move. Woosh
It’s private in the sense that the DMs were made between 2 people. They are public in the sense that the admins of the instance(s) can read the DMs. Just like admins of any server can read anything that’s not encrypted at source.
Not exactly something that requires top secret classification, yeah?
since the text is too small to be readable, nobody can tell; but in any case, privacy matters regardless of the classification. If drag cared they could’ve asked Ada beforehand if it would be okay.
But I guess courtesy is a one-way to drag.
Drag is sorry to Ada for sharing the screenshot of her saying she’d talk to spujb. Drag won’t do it again.
Strangers on the Internet don’t owe you jack just because you send them a DM.
Already said it in !main@lemmy.blahaj.zone but I’ll say it again so others can see it here.
It seems drag was banned from the site for sharing people’s DMs, though I’m sure that’s not the whole story, drag has a history of being banned for way more than just the thing on the label. Looking at the comments on drag’s home instance where it hasn’t been removed, it seems drag was sharing those DMs in attempt to libel Ada for not taking the action drag wanted. That’s on top of the fact that she did not give drag permission to share them. It’s an asshole move for sure, and I have to say if I were in Ada’s shoes I’d do the same.
Ada was also already wary of drag after the respecting pronouns rule announcement, because a number of blahaj users rightfully pointed out drag is still likely a troll. Fluff around and find out basically.
It ultimately isn’t surprising. Drag has been very sus from the beginning, drag exhibited a lot of behaviors that made me leery. Though at the time I didn’t say anything since it was only a hunch and most people were just voicing transphobic complaints about pronouns.
What made drag feel suspicious?
Either you have issues with reading comprehension or you are an alt of drag. When people say someone is being sus or has been sus they generally mean they as a person are behaving in ways that make others suspicious.
I believe transparency is desirable and the single party consent rule in regards to private conversations should be the primary accepted doctrine here outside of any communique that is sexual/private and includes nudes and or personal data and could constitute doxxing.
That’s your opinion, but many people do not agree with you. I myself would be pissed if you shared our DM convo without asking me first, or even letting me know you were going to. I can see why Ada would and why she did what she did, it’s disrespectful and adversarial.
If its just a friendly convo yeah one parry would def be a dick to share that text dialogue but if you’re involved in a contentious dispute you should just assume your chat is going to be used against you. Single party consent is what allows us to put police and corporations in their place when they are doing shady shit being opposed to it just makes you look like you have something to hide. I know drag is a troll but banning him for posting dm screenshots is just shitty. And then pointing fingers as to who started what and who deserves what after the fact is also shitty. But what evs
Okay? Sure! Be pissed off when someone you trust violates your trust. That’s not what happened here. Strangers on the Internet do not owe you anything. Even if you send them a DM.
Interesting that you say that
Single party consent, as I myself put my foot in yesterday, is by far not the norm.
Drag didn’t know Ada didn’t message spujb. Drag was making it clear to spujb and anyone reading the thread that drag wasn’t lying. Drag is sorry to Ada and won’t do it again. Drag tried to tell her earlier today, but drag couldn’t
Of course when they ban him it’s not for being a transphobic piece of shit, but instead for sharing DMs. Sure, being a troll and using the trans community as a cudgel to harass people is fine, but sharing private communication? Well, that’s a step too far.
Blahaj is a joke.
Don’t forget flooding people’s DMs with porn. Drag loves doing that too.
Hey, it’s not sexual harassment, and you’re transphobic for saying calling out his bad behavior! Also, he’s just being quirky when he suggested people kill themselves!
Or creating hateful communities to personally harass and target you. It’s already happened to me twice.
Wow don’t share your DMs with us! Ban Snowpix for revealing the content of DMs.
No drag doesn’t. Drag has never done that.
???
I read that in their voice.
Please don’t he/him drag.
Ironic considering how much flack blahaj got for defending that user.
I think Blåhaj handled this person well over all. Even if Drag wad just 100% troll, drag wasn’t being fed in Blåhaj and had to go elsewhere. But also there was always the chance that drag is just someone on a journey or with things to sort out. Some people have completely given up on being any gender and treat it like a joke in an almost nihilistic way. But clearly there’s a line between that and an actual troll.
Either way, I wouldn’t say that it’s standard heterosexual cisgender behaviour to go as far as Drag did just for the lulz. So maybe one of these days, Drag will have an awakening and remember how no one in the community either fed drag or shunned drag when drag was confused and behaving badly.
But also there was always the chance that they’re just someone on a journey or with things to sort out.
I can agree with this, but the part that’s missing is that sometimes what someone needs to hear on their journey is “My person you are OUT OF YOUR MIND right now, please come back to your fucking senses and knock this shit off because we care about you.”
- sorry wrong comment -
I personally don’t think they were a troll but I am also not sure I agree with banning people for not remembering or wanting to use their unusual pronouns.
But I am not well-educated on the topic of neopronouns so if someone feels like educating me or suggesting some readings I am open to it.
No one was banned for not rembering drags pronouns or for accidentally getting them wrong.
People were banned for dismissing the validity of neopronouns or for deliberately and repeatedly getting pronouns wrong.
Was it dismissing or just not understanding? To be honest my recollection is a bit fuzzy.
I’m a little afraid to be having this conversation lest I be accused of prejudice against trans or nonbinary folks, a prejudice I try my best to fight against. But I don’t even understand the connection there since we already have well-established systems of pronouns for such people.
Personally, I truly can’t fathom why neopronouns are necessary and while I don’t want to disrespect anyone, they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them… especially when they are implicitly linked to having sex with non-human mythological creatures.
But maybe I am just ignorant. Drag was my first introduction to this concept. I’d like to learn more about this.
Was it dismissing or just not understanding?
Some folk require understanding before they offer acceptance. Those folk will frame it as “just not understanding”. I frame that as lack of acceptance. Acceptance isn’t contingent on understanding. You or I not understanding an aspect of someone elses identity has nothing to do with the validity of their identity.
If you wish to ask someone questions about their pronouns and identity, you’re welcome to do so, but remember they don’t owe you an answer, and whether they offer you an answer or not, and whether you understand their perspective or not, either way, gatekeeping and invalidating their identity is not on.
they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them
That was the other option I offered folk. If someone has stated their pronouns, either use them, or if you can’t bring yourself to use them, don’t engage with the person.
If the person is trolling, report them. But even if they’re trolling, the above statement still stands. Respect their pronouns or don’t engage with them as you report them.
How can one accept or reject a thing without understanding what it is they are accepting? Is not immediately changing the way one speaks without a reason or even an explicit request equivalent to denying someone’s identity? I don’t think my discomfort with neopronouns is because I reject anyone’s identity. I don’t even understand what such a person’s identity is. Unlike established pronouns, neopronouns do not have any meaning at all to me because I’ve never heard them before and no one has defined them. What do they signify? I assume something different for each one, so what is it? I’ve always been careful with my language, so using words without a clear understanding of their meaning makes me uncomfortable.
Language is a very meaningful topic for people. Both for the speaker and the spoken to. We have all been acculturated to speak in a certain way, and to understand the meanings of such speech in a certain way. I don’t think asking people to change the way they speak is as trivial as you seem to imply. Nor is declining to change the way one speaks the same as saying “I reject your identity”, unless such a meaning is intended.
And of course I understand that someone may not want to have this (or any) conversation. But I also feel that you can’t expect people to change without them understanding why they need to change. Most people hate change, it’s just human nature. So if you choose not to educate people, you’ll have to accept that they remain ignorant until such time as someone takes on that burden.
I’m trans. Cis people literally can never truly understand my experience or why the things that are important to me are important. Acceptance can’t be contingent on understanding they can never have.
Neopronouns are the same. You can work on your own understanding to reduce your discomfort but your discomfort should be your problem, not something you get to force on to others
I think the broader issue is, you say you’re uncomfortable saying something. And at the same time other people say the want to be addressed like that. And, now what? I mean those might all be valid concerns/feelings/whatever. But we can’t have it both ways. So what do we do to solve this? You need to find some agreement on how to address someone, or silence is the other option.
Or, do what my instance did, and ban him for being a transphobic troll that harasses people, which is the only sensible action.
Drag does not use he/him.
DragonRider’s pronouns are “Drag” not “they”, just because someone is a dick doesn’t mean you don’t respect pronouns. Gender isn’t a reward for good behavior.
You’re right. I honestly wasn’t even thinking. Going to edit my comment now.
drag has stated that drag accepts they/them as well.
Drag is just someone with an unusual gender, bot has no qualms with that. Perhaps you should use Tumblr if you wanna see more people with out-there gender identities, the trans Tumblr community is part of the reason bot still uses that site
yay drone rights and such, am i rite?
Can you fill in the backstory? I missed this incident or possibly multiple incidents.
Blahaj said you have to respect everyone’s pronouns, even if you think they are trolling, because it’s not up for debate and you don’t get to set conditions before you start calling someone by the right appelations. Fair enough.
A user figured out that meant they could identify as a dragon, tell everyone their pronouns were “drag,” and get people banned from blahaj for not saying “drag,” or trying to tell this person that drag weren’t actually a dragon. Blahaj, in the mode of overly well-intentioned leftists throughout all history, bought into it hard and obediently virtue-signaled by banning anyone who pointed out that drag was taking the piss. Presumably, drag laughed dragself out of dragr chair every time it happened. Drag also tended to display other fun behavior like encouraging other users to commit suicide, if I remember right.
Apparently, blahaj has finally figured it out. I eagerly await whatever overcorrection or other type of continuingly-counterproductive drama is going to ensue now. Presumably, some new user will emerge with some other type of bizarre edge case in the “official correct morality” that everyone is required to agree on, to instigate everyone to get into slap fights over.
You clearly have a bone to pick, but it should be noted that Drag was a well-known user long before the post clarifying Blahaj’s stance on neopronouns was posted, at least by a couple of months.
It’s a nice story, but it’s not what happened.
Drag was active long before I made the pronoun post, and that post is the second post I’ve made on the topic in the last couple of years.
Drags pronouns are to be respected. Everyone’s pronouns are to be respected. It’s pretty simple.
The need for some people to need to put an “except…” at the end of that last sentence is something I will never understand.
That hasn’t changed, and the position long predates your account being created.
appreciate your consistent and calm attitude to such a frustrating and consistent onslaught of criticism ada, as always <3
Yeah it was kind of obvious it was the attack helicopter meme from the start. The whole thing was a bit silly in the sense that pronouns which don’t reflect human reality aren’t really any kind of moral hazard for ones that do imo.
At the same time, I kind of feel like gate keeping pronouns actually gives the trolls power in a way. Imagine someone at the office does this and then everyone actually calls them a Christmas tree or whatever. The lack of concern about this new nickname in the broader population would definitely piss them off, since they are the one who cares about that stuff.
I think, also, what gives the trolls power is everyone getting upset about it. If it was 50% of the office saying “Is ChristmasTreeSelf coming to the party?” and 50% saying “Bro I’m not saying that it is stupid”, but neither one really treating it as any different than any other Tuesday, then it’s fine. But because people have this deeply held impassion about the whole issue (which exists for a valid reason of course), it means they feel like they need to set these super-rigid rules about what is “allowed” and “not allowed” out of those outcomes, and then other people get upset about having things they are thinking inside their head that they will get banned if they say out loud, and it just becomes a situation of upset-ness instead of anything like positive communication between people. And then there are people who like to be performatively upset because someone violated the rules and now they’re all excited to correct them, which just compounds the problem which was already an upset situation.
It is okay if people think different from you. I feel like a lot of modern society involves people needing the debate to continue until their own particular viewpoint is “proven right” and becomes the law of the land, so they won’t have to deal with any enemy viewpoints anywhere within the kingdom without someone coming in to correct them, forcibly if necessary, which isn’t really how it works.
Wow, thanks for the feedback.
appelations: learned a new word
FYI, that post was incorrect (and the user has been banned for comments made elsewhere). You can see some clarifications in my reply to the comment.
I can’t remember the exact details but I believe at least a few people were banned for suggesting that drag was a troll and refusing to use their preferred neopronouns.
People weren’t banned for criticizing them, they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them. I don’t think anyone was banned for not using “personal” neo pronouns.
And drag was banned from BZ for telling people to KYS, then they went and made a new account on a different instance and have continued pissing people off, now the new acount is being banned from stuff because they’ve continued the kind of behavior that got them banned in the first place.
they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them
(My God what the fuck am I thinking wading into this.)
“Dragon” isn’t a gender. Refusing to identify someone as the gender they identified with, because you thought they were trolling, is fucked up yes. That’s why blahaj made the rule, and it’s a good rule. Refusing to identify someone as a dragon because you think they’re trolling is A-ok. Deliberately conflating those two issues, so that you pretend someone is “misgendering” if they exercise a small amount of common sense and refuse to go along with someone being a dragon, is I think exactly the trick this particular troll was trying to play, and it worked like fireworks. I think in terms of creating conflict between two reasonable points of view on this topic that would get people on both sides all amped up about it, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
At the same time, the thing is so ridiculous that it doesn’t really interfere with any sincerely held belief, I think. The drama is what the troll wants.
This is the usual series of events for the drag drama:
Drag: does something that any Lemmy user does: Commenting, posting, etc. Something innocuous
Someone: Hey. I’m not calling you that/Why are you called that?
Drag: explains
Someone: Fucking trollDoes that really seem like someone starting fights on purpose? It’s people going out of their way to pick a fight with drag, and drag retaliating. Drag doesn’t start these things most of the time
How many alts are you gonna make, drag?
When drag misgendered someone its no big deal, but when drag gets mis-pronouned its a huge drama.
Drag doesn’t start these things most of the time
Go fucking figure.
Its not even “Dragon”. Its “Dragon Fucker”.I made an error. It’s short for “Dragon Rider”.
Drag’s gender isn’t dragon fucker. That’s drag’s sexuality. Drag’s gender is dragon rider. One is about who drag is, one is about who drag likes to fuck.
Careful not to mythologize the characters of people who have just hurt others.
With 100+ comments already this is probably a message delivered too late, but if you are reading this be aware that comments here that digress away from simply keeping history into ogling and ridiculing serve only to feed the needs of a user who already has alt accounts drifting in as we speak.
I’m really amazed how they don’t try very hard to conceal their alts as alts. Change what they refer to themselves as in the third person, and everything else is exactly the same. Low effort.
Drag can’t control how drag’s friends talk. If drag were writing their posts for them, drag would be a lot more careful. Unfortunately, drag doesn’t use disguised alts, and drag’s friends write their own comments themselves. And drag is friends with other queer neurodivergent people who have personalities and values similar to drag’s.
If that is actually true, then I apologise for the assumption.
If you want to get to know someone, the best way is to treat them like a person. And drag would think getting to know somebody is the best way to find out who they are; drag, or someone else. Drag doesn’t think anybody has actually tried to find the truth.
Lemmy is supicious that drag’s friends don’t use Lemmy very often, and mostly just comment whenever drag is upset. Would you want to use Lemmy if your main experience with it was your friend crying because someone misgendered them? When you think of drag’s friends as people, their actions make a lot more sense.
I’m sorry Drag. I have seen enough of the person you show to the community not to want to get to know you. If you’re hurt that’s fine, and you have a right to express that. That right doesn’t extend to telling people to commit suicide. I have no interest in getting to know you further, or the friends/alts (whichever, I’m not currently arguing that point) who support you after having done so repeatedly. A real friend would call someone out for that behavior.
Regardless, I’m not interested in further interaction between us. Enjoy your day.Suicide?
clown down.
legit you cannot convince me this wasn’t trolling, and the fact so many people haven’t been able to tell, for so long, is deeply funny but also somewhat depressing. I blocked them almost as soon as I encountered them. It reeks of bait turned up to 11, like an edgy 16 year old just heard about the concept of making your own pronouns and went “ok how can I make this as stupid as humanly possible to fuck with people?”.
I think with regards to the whole pronouns thing, just because they are a troll doesn’t mean you should ignore their pronoun preference, as it sets a dangerous precedent for when its right or not to do so.
You haven’t wandered the Fediverse enough, them. By the way, please just respect people’s pronouns, we may never know.
Literally never seen a more obvious person trolling the LGBT+ community, the only way he could have been more clear is if he had chosen Attack Helicopter instead of dragon. I feel just like you, I don’t understand why so many people humored him for so long when he was actively mocking them to their faces.
Getting banned from Blahaj.Zone is easy. Just disagree with the admin on anything.
If by disagree you mean intentionally misgender people then yes
Image description for my fellow Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
Do you think it would be helpful if I added this to the description?
Maybe, I wrote this because lemmy.zip geoblocks the UK so I had to use my VPN to see the image.
Drag earned a lot of bans because Drag is a troll. Drag can’t help but suggest that people kill themselves, and then demand people refer to them as Drag, as they identify as a Dragon. When Drag was asked if Drag stands for Dragon, Drag implied the person asking was stupid for not knowing Drag stands for Dragon Rider. Drag also intentionally made numerous posts on .world inciting violence against government officials and wealthy Dutch citizens. Drag claimed the posts were an experiment testing .world’s admins’ dedication to Dutch law vis-a-vis Luigi /incitement to violence. And finally. Drag refers to Drag in the third person. Drag is a troll. Fuck Drag.
I can see it, has the image moved?
Demigodrick (zip admin) reached out on matrix to say they were adding pictrs to their geoblock bypass, so now pictures from zip are viewable from the UK.
- Call me Lenny/Leni ( @shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee ) English12•1 month ago
If they follow the rules, they are always welcome in Casual Conversation.
I do not understand the same reasons to judge them that everyone else seems to. They have never seemed antagonistic.
There are/were some instances of harassment with multiple accounts from them IIRC
- Call me Lenny/Leni ( @shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee ) English5•1 month ago
How would anyone know it’s them?
Its been a while since I saw the posts, but it was not subtle at all; immediate reactionary posts from the same instance all badmouthing someone drag was arguing with, using the same phrasing and sentence structure drag uses.
Stop tolerating their ridiculous neopronoun. It was an obvious fucking troll. Grow a spine and start calling this fucking bullshit out instead of letting it infect the LGBT communities.
This “condensed” write up by @southernsamurai is, I feel, an excellent argument for why that isn’t true.
If you look through my various comments on this thread, you’ll see that I am…not a fan of Drag. They’re one of, again blah blah blah personal opinion, the worst types of person. Using rules in a safe space for vulnerable people against them, intentionally stirring the pot and garnering ill will across the Fed, some of it inappropriately aimed at the safe space. I’m not sure I believe that they are otherkin as they claim, but I’ll be respectful and call them what they want to be called while I tell them that drag should look dragself in the mirror and treat others with the same respect and decency befitting a fellow sentient that they weaponise the rules to force others to give them or be removed. And if drag cannot bring dragself to treat others well, cannot stop misgendering others, or telling them to KYS, Drag is not worth the piss it would take to put out a fire. But we’re presumably civilised, and I will use the terms drag wants used to refer to drag to politely tell drag to go fuck dragself off somewhere dragr behaviour is welcome. Which is definitely not here.^ pretty much sums it up.
Idk fam, I feel like weird use of language kinda pales in comparison to sexual harassment of other users, and the fact that the former is what most people seem to care about with DragonFucker is kinda concerning.
I didn’t know that that stupid motherfucker sexually harassed anyone. So the former was the only one relevant to my experience.
I think I’m willing to take a stance on, You can have he him, she her, they them, it, or some mixture of those.
Generally I just wouldn’t care however seeing that community bend itself into a pretzel over an obvious troll pretty much cemented my feeling on the subject. At some point you’re no longer being tolerant and are just being gullible.
- Call me Lenny/Leni ( @shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee ) English2•1 month ago
Coincidences do happen. I got semi-banned from a place once, and a few months afterward, someone joined with a name that was near-identical. It was a real Guy Incognito moment.
These immediate reactionary posts, were they directed at various different people? Drag has been in drama and conflict with a lot of people on Lemmy. So if drag made the posts, it would make sense for them to be directed at all the people drag has had a lot of conflict with: spujb, Flying Squid, Pug Jesus…
Or, was the alt-account harassment all directed at a single user, and all at a time when that user had something to gain from playing the victim? Because if that’s the case, it seems like maybe that particular user is somehow linked to the cause of the harassment.
well, we have a saying in Germany:
“Tja…”
That dude is miles and miles beyond obnoxious. I get actively angry to see his moronic comments.
Edit: If you’re in here defending this guy you’re either an idiot, a troll yourself, or his alt.
I just posted it here cuz it’s a drama community and drag brings lots of drama
Getting you actively angry is the point, they’re a troll.
Why? “Sharing dms” what happened
