The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility
www.youtube.com
This video is not monetized. This video covers our serious concerns regarding the data accuracy of Linus Media Group, including Linus Tech Tips, ShortCircuit...
  •  Vengefu1 Tuna   ( @Vengefu1Tuna@lemm.ee ) English
    156•10 months ago

    The issue with the water block is massive to me. Testing a prototype product on a GPU that it wasn’t made for, giving it a negative review, doubling down on that negative review when called out, promising to return the prototype to Billet Labs, then SELLING the prototype to the public at their LTX expo. As Steve points out, if a competitor gets their hands on that prototype, it could put Billet Labs out of business. This is wild, and LMG should absolutely be called out like this.

  •  eltimablo   ( @eltimablo@kbin.social ) 
    133•10 months ago

    I’ve had beef with LTT since his series of videos where he tried to use Linux as a daily driver while making absolutely zero effort to understand any of the differences between it and Windows, then proceeded to whine about how it’s not Windows. The part where he broke his system after it explicitly warned him he was about to break it and asked for rather thorough confirmation that he wanted to do so was where I stopped watching him for good.

    There’s being ignorant and then there’s being stupid. I fault nobody for being ignorant of how something works when they first encounter it. I do, however, fault them when they demand changes be made without actually understanding the implications of those changes.

    •  SkyNTP   ( @SkyNTP@lemmy.ml ) 
      23•10 months ago

      But that’s how the typical user behaves. I love Linux and what you can do with it, but it’s so tone deaf to think oridanry people are going to behave any diffeent than Linus did. People just don’t have the time to take that effort you expect of yourself, only enthusiast have this kind of time. Other people are enthusiastic about other things. We need to all respect this.

      Ugh, it’s so frustrating. Linux will continue to be irrelevant to consumers as long as this attitude of “just put in the effort to understand” persists.

    •  Fizz   ( @Fizz@lemmy.nz ) 
      22•10 months ago

      His series on linux got me interested in linux and a few weeks before the first ep came out I made the switch. I had been using linux as a brand new user for 4 weeks when watching his “review” of linux and I thought it was unfair. But linux made a good first impression on me and I am still daily driving it and now all my machines run linux.

      •  AtomicPurple   ( @AtomicPurple@kbin.social ) 
        21•10 months ago

        I work in IT. Average people tend to fall into one of two categories when presented with big scary warning messages.

        Category 1: They freak out and immediately ask for help, and tend to be very skeptical of anything you tell them to do until the message goes away.
        Category 2: They ignore the message and YOLO it like Linus did, then call for help hours or days later when something inevitably breaks.
        It’s rare for either group of people to read an comprehend the message in it’s entirety.

  •  jamon   ( @jamon@lemmy.ml ) 
    105•10 months ago

    I started the video shocked that GN would do a video like this at all. I was 100% ready to blame GN for being petty. As I watched and listened, though, he made really good points, and I can’t help but agree. Especially on the points where Linus doubles down on really bad takes instead of doing the right thing, insisting it doesn’t matter (there are loads more examples than just Billet).

    The one thing he didn’t say that I wish he had, though, is to remind people that he’s focused on industry journalism, not just hardware itself. This isn’t a hit piece, it’s an information piece, where he holds industry players accountable. Not unlike his journalism on Newegg and Asus. No, it’s not positive, but it’s honest, and it informs and benefits consumers.

    •  agent_flounder   ( @agent_flounder@lemmy.one ) 
      16•10 months ago

      I got the sense that he didn’t really want to have to do a video like this. He kind of said as much a couple of times. And in one section he mentioned he has kind of tip-toed around directly calling out LTT on specific screwups for some time. Like posting his results that contradicted theirs with the hope that people would notice but without directly going “looks at LTT’s bogus numbers wtf”

      I kind of felt like he got to a point where he couldn’t in good conscience ignore it any longer because the pile of fuckups had gotten too big and too egregious with this billet labs fiasco.

      I’m glad he did the vid because, yeah, he has done a good job of holding others accountable as you said, and this is exactly the same ethos. It’s tough because I imagine you don’t want to be seen as just doing hit pieces against the competition. There’s an inherent conflict of interest at play. But given sufficiently good evidence and enough of it, I think that puts those concerns almost entirely to rest.

      The kind of person to be doing reviews is someone who values the truth – accurate results and sound conclusions – over money, ego, fame and popularity, etc. Someone with a great deal of curiosity, skepticism, mental flexibility, and humility. Sounds like that is the near polar opposite of Linus.

      I find it hard to believe, sometimes, that fully grown adults exist who cannot admit their mistakes which just reminds me of how damn lucky I am to work where I do, with a culture that encourages fessing up and fixing rather than covering up and blaming. Where the overwhelming majority of people I have ever worked with is about doing the right thing with an eye primarily on the goal rather than their own ego and ambition.

    •  noobnarski   ( @noobnarski@feddit.de ) 
      11•10 months ago

      Yeah, he didnt do a video to roast LTT and he also didnt insult him.

      He just stated what he sees as going wrong at LTT and how it could be fixed.

      I stopped watching LTT a long time ago because of similar reasons, it was just so frustrating to see them start a project, barely finish it, release the video and the not finish it.

      Other times they made a big mistake in the middle and continued with the video “because we dont have time to fix it”.

      I prefer Youtubers that may have months between videos, but when a new one is out, I nkow its going to be a good one.

      And if they do a project, when it has an issue, they either continue the video until it is fixed, or they read it in the comments and someday we will get a follow up.

  •  bacondragonoverlord   ( @bacondragonoverlord@feddit.de ) 
    85•10 months ago

    https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641

    Linus’s response.

    I honestly fully stand by GN in this and while I think LTT should have had the opportunity to respond to the allegations before the video went live, since this is the proper Journalistic thing to do, it should be considered that ltt has a huge audience and influence in the tech sphere so I can only assume GN didn’t want them to get ahead of the curve? It’s sad if it has come to this.

    I also don’t know how exactly ltt could respond to the observations GN made since it’s a piece about what happened in videos they posted. They can’t really deny what happened. All they could do is lower their head and promise to do better.

    •  Dubious_Fart   ( @Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml ) OPEnglish
      40•10 months ago

      Ugh, Hes trying so hard to double down on his comments, while giving plausible deniability to his doubling down, especially with the Billet block.

      And its so fucking stupid to complain that the billet waterblock is expensive and stupid, considering ALL the stupid, expensive, wasteful bullshit hes done on his channel… Its double stupid that hes still using his basis on using the wrong card that didnt fit it as his argument.

    •  deFrisselle   ( @deFrisselle@lemmy.sdf.org ) 
      10•10 months ago

      Server capacity exceeded Thankfully I got to read it before their forum server took a dump for some reason

      I don’t feel Linus could have said anything to Steve to stop the video Really, Linus/LMG needed the wakeup call They have been making bigger and bigger stumbles and it’s not just due to growth as Linus uses it as an excuse He also said nothing would change as a result of the Billet debacle, just a tightening of documentation but it a sign of bigger issues It was the result of multiple levels of failure He should have stopped the video when he knew they didn’t have the right GPU there and even pointed out quite authoritatively to is employee his mistake in not identifying the GPU A symptom of rushing out videos on a very tight schedule possibly

    •  Altima NEO   ( @altima_neo@lemmy.zip ) English
      7•10 months ago

      The big reason Steve didn’t go through Linus first, and he mentions it a few times in the video, is because LMG is no longer a small company or a one man YouTube show. They’re s big company. I know Linus works hard to hit that YouTube grind, but he still sees himself as a small YouTuber.

      I mean Steve would have done this same piece had it been gigabyte, Newegg, or whomever on that larger scale.

    •  kalipike   ( @kalipike@lemmy.one ) 
      6•10 months ago

      I like GN and LTT for casual watching. But I’m very disappointed Steve opted to not do the proper thing and provide the accused party the opportunity to respond to his allegations. It comes off really hypocritical when he’s calling out one media group for lack of ethics/integrity/accountability and rushing videos out without proper checks and procedure in place and then rushes a video out and doesn’t give them a chance to respond first. And I don’t say this just because it’s GN and LTT. Could have been J2C and Hardware Unboxed or something and I’d still have this same opinion. I highly respect GN for the work they put in l, the content they make, and their quality, but this is a bit disappointing to see. Hopefully LTT cleans up their QC pipeline and thinks their actions through, and hopefully Steve at GN does too.

      A bad day all around in my book.

      •  Ace   ( @AcesFullOfKings@feddit.uk ) 
        8•10 months ago

        I don’t agree.

        and then rushes a video out

        I don’t think this felt rushed. I think, as he said in the video, this has been brewing for months, and it felt thought through and thorough.

        Steve opted to not do the proper thing and provide the accused party the opportunity to respond

        I think if it was one mistake they would have done exactly that. But as it’s been a consistent trend over months or even years of sloppiness and mistakes and rushed videos, you can’t just have a word with someone and fix that overnight. I think publishing the video and their thoughts, and rallying the community to raise awareness and force them to improve, is the right move.

    •  sverit   ( @sverit@feddit.de ) English
      3•10 months ago

      We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing.

      Yeah, well, that’s one of the main issues addressed in this video: You are not transparent about this, when you swap out videos without notice or bury corrections in a non-pinned comment.

      Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation.

      If the listing is wrong, who guarantees the lab tests on which the conclusion is based on are not wrong?

      The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes.

      Take the time it needs to produce correct reviews then. Who wants fast but false results?

  •  net00   ( @net00@lemm.ee ) English
    61•10 months ago

    The most noticeable thing for me are the constant annotations. Sometimes there are so many that I’m not sure why a whole video is up if it’s half assed and they want to salvage it through bandaids.

    Bot holy shit they are become sloppy and borderline corrupt. Thanks to GN for calling them out.

  •  leyland1989   ( @leyland1989@lemmy.ca ) 
    52•10 months ago

    LTT has lived long enough and grown large enough to see themselves being the villain. I suppose fame and wealth can corrupt a person easily, the arrogance in the response from Linus is disappointing.

    LTT hasn’t been a serious or informative tech channel for years, you don’t watch their video for information but for entertainment. They try to right the course by creating the Lab team but miss the point when they don’t change their mindset.

    It’s like Top Gear vs Fifth Gear back in the days. You don’t buy a new car base on the reviews on Top Gear, likewise if I want useful consumer advice, LTT is the last place I look.

    •  7heo   ( @7heo@lemmy.ml ) 
      18•10 months ago

      Bro, the simple fact that Linus failed to recognize that ads are most of the time forced on you, with no paid opt-out alternative, had me cursing at him.

      It’s not piracy if I can’t pay to get the product unaltered. PERIOD.

        •  joshinator   ( @joshinator@feddit.de ) 
          15•10 months ago

          You still get their obnoxious “screwdriver, lttstore, waterbottle” reminders in every single video. Their 10sec in-video ads aren’t that bad, but other channels have 2min ads within 8min videos. Which mean’s paying users still get more ads than someone with browser extensions/modified apps.

          The whole thing is a race to the bottom. People use adblock because there are just too many Youtube ads. Creators get less money from Youtube, so they resort to more and more in-video ads, and eventually SponsorBlock gets more appealing.

        •  7heo   ( @7heo@lemmy.ml ) 
          3•10 months ago

          YouTube premium is supposed to be this, but it is apparently glitching enough that you get plenty of results for “YouTube premium still showing ads” web searches, and it does nothing against sponsor spots.

          I would shut up if Google implemented a sponsor block feature for premium users, and fixed their ads showing to (too many) premium subscribers. Buy they don’t. As it stands, paying for premium to opt-out from ads is as efficient as using DoNotTrack (which is effectively just added data for fingerprinting) to opt-out from tracking. It makes you part of the problem when you clearly intend to be part of the solution. 🤷‍♂️

          •  cobra89   ( @cobra89@beehaw.org ) 
            4•10 months ago

            You can make a Google search and find almost anything, just because a handful of people claim to have an issue doesn’t mean that there really is one. You can find issues with any service. This point is incredibly overblown. Also if you sign up for premium and it’s still showing you ads you can contact support or cancel it. That said, I’ve had premium for a couple years now and have never seen an ad. I mostly use it because we watch a lot of YouTube on our Roku and there is no way around ads on that without premium.

  •  gamer   ( @gamer@lemm.ee ) 
    41•10 months ago

    Damn this is eye opening for me. LTT was always my most trusted source for tech reviews. I noticed that they’d make little mistakes every once in a while, but didn’t realize it was part of a larger problem. I actually made a Ryzen 9 7900 buying decision recently because of this video which made it seem like the best value (especially compared to their very confusing 7950x3d review). After watching this GN video though, I feel stupid for not even thinking to check other channels before making a buying decision.

    (Although honestly this is a major upgrade over my previous hardware, so even if it wasn’t the best possible option, it’s still a net positive for me.)

    I really hope LTT takes this criticism seriously. It’s always gratifying to see misbehavior have consequences on the internet, but these independent reviewers are pretty much the only people on our side as consumers. I’d rather see a course correction than a crash, especially since LMG in particular has a uniquely powerful position and can have real impacts on manufacturers that benefit consumers.

    •  Trainguyrom   ( @Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ) English
      20•10 months ago

      LTT used to be fun because they’d get a bit more creative than other youtubers and weren’t to cringewrothy (I’m talking back in the house with the kitchen set) and occasionally would go on some bonkers home engineering projects that were just stupid fun. But as my IT career grew I learned just how disconnected they are from enterprise IT and just how focused on gaming hardware they are (and just how boring gaming computers are) and now that I have a degree in networking and they’ve been struggling to level up their networking game I really just shake my head.

      I watch them for entertainment purposes but anytime they look at server-y stuff I’m more watching to see how bad they are than to learn anything or see anything cool.

      Its fine that they have their niche, its fine that they’re trying to expand out of it, and I wish them the best, but they’ve got a concerning cultural problem that needs to be addressed before they can effectively grow more

      Edit: wow this seemed so big when it was just a accuracy and integrity issue but now that seems so small with the new revelations from Madison. I wish everyone working the grind at LTT the best and hope everyone who sexually harassed and groped can find a nice thorny cactus as their new office chair

      •  Streptember   ( @Streptember@kbin.social ) 
        3•10 months ago

        They’re not even the only ones doing server/enterprise grade hardware anymore. And they’re obviously incapable of competing in that area with more knowledgeable channels (outside of a few employees who can’t carry a whole LTT video by themselves).

  •  sverit   ( @sverit@feddit.de ) English
    34•10 months ago

    Here is his response: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/?__cf_chl_rt_tk=riEm65zw7EleA5UJEi3eN8ZaHnVo6Smg27vxUlGW5uk-1692115262-0-gaNycGzNDGU#comment-16078641

    My take on it:

    We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing.

    Yeah, well, that’s one of the main issues addressed in this video: You are not transparent about this, when you swap out videos without notice or bury corrections in a non-pinned comment.

    Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation.

    If the listing is wrong, who guarantees the lab tests on which the conclusion is based on are not wrong?

    The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes.

    Take the time it needs to produce correct reviews then. Who wants fast but false results?