- cross-posted to:
- unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
Rishi Sunak is considering introducing some of the world’s toughest anti-smoking measures that would in effect ban the next generation from ever being able to buy cigarettes, the Guardian has learned.
Whitehall sources said the prime minister was looking at measures similar to those brought in by New Zealand last December. They involved steadily increasing the legal smoking age so tobacco would end up never being sold to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009.
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If they want to ban tobacco let them first legalise weed, acid, and psylocybin. That’d be a fair trade.
Why are cocaine fent oxy schedule 2?
Tried going cold Turkey today, made it like 14 hours.
It’s the right thing to do. It’s a very hard addiction to escape. I know a guy who beat heroin and can’t beat nicotine.
I recently quit. I’m about 6 weeks since my last patch. A relapse is exceedingly unlikely.
Going cold turkey would never have worked for me. Cut down > switch to patches > taper off.
One day at a time. Keep trying. It’s absolutely worth it.
IMHO they should ban all types of smoking. If people want to eat weed brownies and nicotine chewing gums, I don’t care. But smoking just smells bad and is really unpleasant to be around in the street.
Just ban smoking drugs and combustion engine. I just want clean air.
Living in a tolerant society means that we need to be willing to deal with these little inconveniences in our lives. One of my neighbours has kids who love to play on a go-kart and wake me up at 6am on a Saturday morning, sometimes I can smell people barbecuing even though I’m vegan, and so on.
As long as it’s not a direct risk to health (e.g. smoking indoors) and not extremely obnoxious (playing extremely loud music and refusing to turn it down) people should be able to do what they want to.
One of my neighbours has kids who love to play on a go-kart and wake me up at 6am on a Saturday morning
As long as it’s not … extremely obnoxious (playing extremely loud music and refusing to turn it down)
I’m not sure I see a meaningful difference here. And why is it you don’t see polluting the air to be a direct health risk? If you wanted to ride a bike or walk instead of drive everywhere, I’m sure you’d see how car exhaust doesn’t just disappear immediately.
I’m sure if I asked the parents of the kids if they could ask them to wait til after 9am to play on the go kart they probably would, I have a lower expectation of “polite” behaviour from kids and I don’t want to take their fun away from them, you’re only young once and I don’t really begrudge them it.
For vehicle exhaust, we’re basically already solving the problem by moving away from ICE vehicles, so I don’t see the reason in arguing about it.
Alright, but why is it okay for you to decide that some noise is okay, but Ronon Dex can’t decide that the air pollution isn’t? Why do you get to make that decision for them, and just say “you have to deal with some problems in a tolerant society”?
For vehicle exhaust, we’re basically already solving the problem by moving away from ICE vehicles, so I don’t see the reason in arguing about it.
Because there’s more than one way of generating air pollution and some would argue that the transition isn’t happening fast enough, or even that transitioning to electric cars isn’t really a solution.
Alright, but why is it okay for you to decide that some noise is okay, but Ronon Dex can’t decide that the air pollution isn’t?
My position is pretty simple: we should prioritise personal freedoms over personal preferences, as long as our actions are not significantly harmful to others, then there shouldn’t be any laws forbidding those actions.
Is OP harmed by someone smoking weed in the middle of nowhere? No. Yet they want to ban it. They said that there should be a ban on all kinds of smoking. Total authoritarian nonsense.
The car thing, there’s a reason I completely ignored that part of the comment, it is totally irrelevant to anything I wrote and I’m not going to engage with it, sorry.
as long as our actions are not significantly harmful to others, then there shouldn’t be any laws forbidding those actions.
But you’re not being consistent about what “significantly harmful” even means. Loud noises apparently counts, but only if you want it to. Air pollution doesn’t, even if you think it should.
Is OP harmed by someone smoking weed in the middle of nowhere?
To be fair, they specifically said “smoking just smells bad and is really unpleasant to be around in the street”, so presumably they only really care about the ban when it’s near other people and would be enforceable in the first place. So if no one’s around, do what you want, but near other people you shouldn’t smoke. That goes along rather neatly with your ‘personal freedoms so long as there isn’t harmful to others.’
It’s nothing to do with “me”, it’s more to do with reality. There are plenty of studies which show that a lack of sleep leads to significant health issues. Likewise, yes, air pollution also does. But we’re not talking about coal power plants here, we’re talking about people smoking cigarettes. There’s tons of evidence which shows that they are essentially harmless to others if smoked outdoors. That’s why preventing people from getting sleep matters, but smoking outdoors does not.
I’m not going to engage with the other thing you wrote, except to say that OP said that smoking should be banned with no additional qualifiers, in my view, everything else they wrote was explaining why they felt that way. I’m not going to argue that point though, because it’s not relevant.
Yeah! Prohibition always works out flawlessly.
I don’t think that is realistic.
If you can make it literally easier than stuffing a wad in a pipe and burning then yay!!! Otherwise go back to the drawing board.
Smoking is one of the very few things everyone is better off not doing.
Thank god. Hope this gets passed. Next do vaping and get rid of it
draws on vape whats wrong with vaping? draws on vape
I actually want to know, because every complaint against vape that I have seen has been about the nicotine ones, which are more prevalent for sure but I want to know if non nicotine vapes are also bad.
Nicotine vapes are a decent way to stop smoking (using one myself) but other than that it’s basically just harmful bs. Vape liquids include all kinds of garbage that increase lung conditions of all kinds, especially in the US where they are underregulated af!
I’d reckon ur at a higher risk of developing lung conditions but not as high as smoking and most likely lower than nicotine vapes judging from the research. Vaping would probably be one of the more harmful things you do in your day but i doubt its the most. If ur worried abt the oil, refer to my reply to that comment. I would like you to see the research yourself tho and develop your own opinion as it may be different from mine even though we looked at the same data.
Something about leaving oils and other fluids in the lung that damage it really fast.
U don’t vape oils for that reason ur vaping the same thing as in fog machines. They rnt harmless but they rnt even close to half as deadly as cigs either. Vaping has had alot of fear mongering around it such as popcorn lung. which has never occurred from vaping only extreme oral ingestion or inhalation of the actual powdered flavouring component has caused that, i feel sure enough abt this to add the ingredient to selfmade eliquids. The oils ur referring to are most likely vitamin e acetate and mct both cause oil build up in lungs when vaped, that’s not disputed, but they haven’t been used in commercial eliquids for years.
Edit: I forgot to add that so far the worst I’ve found w vaping is an increased risk for copd but fsr less than cigarettes and itll only raise if we force vapers onto the black market with unregulated eliquid, it also seems to correspond to nicotine level. My source is I researched eliquid components harm fairly indepthly to choose the best ingredients for my own liquid.
The (stopped?) trend in the US had been to tax cigs to make them unaffordable. Just before the last major hike, my brand was about $5/pack. Now it is $10-12. So glad I quit.
Is that a viable strategy, to continue tax/price hikes?
Did it stop you smoking? If so, then yes it worked.
Every 10% increase in cigarette tax results a 4% reduction in consumption among adults, and a 7% decrease amongst youth. Source
It was a minor motivator for me. Bigger ones were things like not dying and my son.
Interesting stats, thanks.
I was paying $14 a pack when I quit 6 weeks ago in NYS. The gum is working out great so far and I feel so much better. 17 years smoking regularly. They should be banned everywhere, sorry fellow smokers. It’s a disgusting, nasty habit that is incredibly hard to break.
I’ve been on zyns for a while now, my lungs do feel so much better. It’s hard to quit the substance, but it’s easier than ever to take it in without inhaling anything.
Good for you! Enjoy your journey to better health!
They’ve been doing that in New Zealand. A pack is now $50. Violent robbery of gas stations and corner stores for them have massively increased
Alcohol is a bigger problem in the UK.
Alcohol is a problem most places. Best thing I ever did for myself was quit drinking entirely.
Not drinking at all and drinking far less is actually trending up significantly with younger demographics in the UK. It’s the older generations who’ve got the real problems. A law like this wouldn’t do anything to help with that.
I wouldn’t count too much on younger generations drinking less forever. Smoking was in decline here for years for younger demographics but recently went back up. The same might happen for alcohol. You never know.
I’ve been suggesting they do this in the states for a while now.
I smoke. I like smoking, and I don’t plan to quit. But it’s obvious that most people want smoking to go away. They keep increasing the price of cigarettes, they keep banning smoking in new areas, and every time they’ll tell you it’s to keep kids from smoking. It’s a lie - they want everyone to stop smoking.
So fine. Set a date, and make it illegal for anyone born after that date to smoke. Then leave us smokers alone. If it’s as bad for us as you say it is, we’ll all die soon anyway.
Will some people born after that date smoke? Sure. But the majority won’t. And it’ll be a constant annoyance for them that they can’t just go buy a carton at the store, which will encourage them to quit. I’d feel sorry for them, but I was told it was bad for me, not that I’d be standing outside in -50° weather puffing as fast as I can because I can’t smoke in my hotel room, or that I’d spend more on cigarettes than I do electricity. They at least know they’ll never be allowed to smoke.
You did that with alcohol. Prohibition does not work. It isn’t working with drugs; it will never work with cigarettes either.
Prohibition works most of the time. Do you know where to get your hands on some black tar heroin? I don’t, nor do most people.
Prohibition of alcohol took something that was popular and made it illegal. Of course it failed. Making tobacco illegal would fail if they did it for everyone. I’m suggesting they make it illegal for people who aren’t already addicted to it.
Edit: heroin, not heroine. Thanks, autocorrect.
I have no idea what black tar heroin is, but I am fairly sure I could find someone who sells drugs of any type locally. As I said the war on drugs has failed. Watch this video from an ex-UK policeman. This is what happens when you make things illegal.
The fact that you don’t know what it is is proof enough that the prohibition against it works. I have no interest in watching your video.
And besides, you’re missing the point. Prohibition of tobacco is coming. I’m not arguing in its favor. I’m suggesting that if they must prohibit tobacco, they phase it out instead of banning it outright.
Prohibition of tobacco is coming.
I have never seen Labour push this policy and Sunak has no time. I feel you are deluded on this one. I should add I am very much an anti smoking person. I just see this as a sensible option.
I would love to be wrong on that, but I don’t think I am.
Kids are already not allowed to smoke or purchase nicotine products but millions of teenagers are still addicted to nicotine and vape like crazy. How can you enforce a ban for an entire age group? And how could you possibly justify an arbitrary ban that allows half the population to purchase and consume something and prohibits the ither half? A law that bans women from purchasing tobacco because it is harmful for a fetus would be struck down by every court in the nation, so why would a ban that discriminates against adults based kn age be any different?
Well, I guess we’ll just make it illegal for everyone and the old timers like me just have to deal with it. Thanks, I hate it.
they keep banning smoking in new areas, and every time they’ll tell you it’s to keep kids from smoking. It’s a lie - they want everyone to stop smoking.
That’s just not the case, at all. I’m a very recent ex-smoker and non-smoking areas absolutely helped me stop, but not for the reason you might think.
In Australia it’s the same - cigarettes getting more expensive and the number of places you can smoke reducing.
No one ever suggested that it’s to keep kids from smoking - the message has always been pretty clear: every cigarette is doing harm, so less places to smoke means less harm.
The main benefit of non-smoking areas is that it made me realise that withdrawals and cravings are really no big deal. About 5 years ago I was terrified of trying to stop because I had convinced myself that the withdrawals would be awful. Then I took a job at a place where it just wasn’t possible to smoke even on breaks. The most noticeable thing was that getting through the entire day without a smoke was actually no big deal - the symptoms were very manageable.
So, to say “they” want everyone to smoke is an odd take IMO. The assumption is that everyone want’s to stop - and non-smoking areas assist with that.
I don’t really believe that you do enjoy smoking. I mean, sitting with friends and having a few beers and smokes is certainly an enjoyable activity - but it’s not the smoking that makes it enjoyable. Anyhow, even if you did truly enjoy smoking, I guess you unfortunately just have to cater for the majority who do not.
Maybe things are different down under, but here in the states they very much do use the “keep kids from smoking” excuse. Every. Single. Time.
I don’t mind going outside or whatever so much. That wasn’t the point I was making. When I started smoking, you could still smoke in restaurants, airplanes, offices, etc. They still had ashtrays at the end of every aisle at the supermarket when I was a kid. Picking up smoking wasn’t a radical thing to do.
They’ve pushed us out to the fringes, but that’s fine. But their goal is to eliminate smoking. What I’m saying is that enough is enough. Let us smoke off away from everyone and die out.
How about we let adults make their own decisions. My body my choice.
Generally I agree with you, but with cigarettes you are not making the choice only for yourself. Every time you walk down the street with a cigarette in hand you are forcing other people to inhale it.
I was born in a world without a cigarette ban in restaurants and clubs and the current situation is 1000 time more preferable imo.
Then ban smoking in public.
When people smoke at home with a window open the disgusting smell wafts out into the windows of unsuspecting non-smokers. It can’t be helped, smoking needs to be banned.
When people do all kinds of shit at their homes it affects the surrounding neighborhood. When someone barbecues you can smell it down the street, when someone mows their lawn you hear it down the street, my neighbors were doing a lot of painting last week and I could smell that for a few days. I hate smoking as much as anyone but at a certain point you just have to deal with it.
Then mandate smokers to smoke in a way that doesn’t affect other people. There’s plenty of things that can be done so that non-smokers don’t have to breath in smoke and smokers can retain autonomy over their bodies. But it’s not realy about that, is it? In a world where you pass hundreds smoke spewing machines every time you walk down the street, and every city requires a huge smoke making facility running 24/7 that can turn the whole sky gray if the wind blows the wrong way, cigarette smoke is the least of your worries. What it realy is about is control over other people, taking away their choice and forcing them to conform to your way of life.
I have said it time and time again. Smokers should have to wear those old diving helmets, but made out of glass. That way they can smoke as much as they want and don’t bother anyone but themselves!10 years ago people called me crazy, but maybe now we are heading in that direction. :)
Lung Cancer for Me but not Thee!
Typical, have your fun then pull up the ladder on the next generation!!!
Ban weed smoking too.
Things like edibles, sure let 'em have it, but we’ve only just gotten to the point where life doesn’t smell like nicotine anymore, we shouldn’t be replacing that with everything smelling like weed.
If they don’t outlaw ALL nicotine products it wont work.
Nicotine while addictive is not what causes most of the health issues associated with smoking.