The Biden administration requested Israel detail the thinking and process behind the recent strike on the Jabalia Refugee Camp in Northern Gaza, according to a U.S. official, who like others was granted anonymity to discuss sensitive conversations.
“The U.S. asked for an explanation of the first [attack] on Jabalia,” said the official, adding that the conversation was in the context of “asking Israel to do more to avoid civilian casualties.”
This is a country teaching young children that all Jews must be exterminated. Not Israelis, Jews. This country is ran by a group who openly call for the extermination of all Jews and are willing to hide in areas designated for civilians for protection. Everything I have said is fact and I can prove to you easily. Why then, are you talking down to someone providing more evidence and context? Israel said they targeted these area because Hamas leaders were hiding there. What Israeli leaders were hiding at the rave on oct. 7th? Why are you so hostile to anyone providing nuance to this conflict? I see you constantly belittling anyone who tries to provide explanations for Israel’s motives. The guy you were talking down to didn’t even say anything pro Israel, he just offered their explanation. Instead of being an asshole to people that go against your narrative, how about you provide them with proof that they are wrong??
“There was a particular bad guy near them” and “they all probably have bad opinions about Jews” are not sufficient justifications for indiscriminately bombing innocent people. What if there had been an Israeli leader at that rave? People in both refugee camps and at a music event should be able to exist without fear that they’ll die because they were near the wrong person. One seems to provoke a different reaction than the other for some reason though, and that might be worth thinking about.
You are exactly right. Hamas knows what they are doing, and it’s working perfectly. A close friend was quite literally handed a pamphlet at work today called “The Jews and their lies”. I don’t even know any Jewish people and even I can tell what Hamas’s end game is.
As far as I understand it your on the nose. There’s no fair excuse for attacking civilian populations to attain war goals. Not hostages, not music fests, not camps, not hospitals. The cost of war is the price of lives you put on the line to kill selectively. Indiscriminate slaughter in the name of “justice” makes you just as bad as your enemy, and as the casualties and cruelties stack, potentially worse. Yeah?
Agreed.
“your narrative”, K.
Here is evidence of Hamas telling Palestinians to stay put https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-tells-gaza-residents-stay-home-israel-ground-offensive-looms-2023-10-13/
Here is evidence of Israel giving 24 hours notice before bombing and saying that the bombings will not stop until all hostages are released https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna120042
Here is evidence that neighboring countries do not want Palestinian refugees https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/war-in-israel/jordan-egypt-palestinian-refugees/
Here is evidence of why neighboring countries don’t want Palestinian refugees https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/70-years-ago-jordans-king-assassinated-by-palestinian-on-temple-mount-674480
All this evidence is painting a very complicated picture. One that shouldn’t be fought over like a sports game.
Says the person stumbling over themselves in a one person conversation. I at least hope you find some satisfaction out of all this effort. I honestly tuned out after your first comment. Please let me know how everything turns out when you finish talking this out with yourself. I’m sure I’ll care.
This was all I needed to hear. Facts be damned your mind is already made up. I don’t think I even need to explain how dangerous this way of thinking is.
No, you’re just annoying and I don’t like talking to you. Nothing forces me to have a conversation with anyone. Believe whatever you like, I’m sure that sword swings both ways ;P
This needs context, because it’s even more complicated. They’re worried about a second Nakba, if Palestinians evacuate they will likely never be allowed to go home.
And zero guarantees that the bombings won’t resume after the hostages are released. Giving up their only leverage would be foolish. By keeping the hostages they are strategically destabilizing Israel, because it makes Israelis unhappy with their government. Knowing your government is going to kill your family has an effect on people, regardless of the reasons.
Again, more complicated. They can’t handle a million+ extra people, especially when they’d be coming with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The burden of a refugee crisis could actually collapse Egypt, they can’t afford this.
If Israel gave a shit they’d take refugees into Israel itself.
It’s complicated, but it’s not inexplicable.
This entire argument was spawned because a commenter pointed out that no, Israel is not going to let a group that effortlessly blends in with the civilian population into their country. Thank you for at least addressing my points. A lot of this comes down to who do you trust? I really don’t trust either side personally, but from all the research I’ve done I’ve found mountains of evidences of intense hatred of Jews in this region long before WWII. I’ve found mountains of evidence pointing towards the land being bought legally prior to the 1948 declaration of war. If you are interested I can provide multiple sources for you about it. I don’t have an agenda and I’d like to see a ceasefire. I just want people to be informed.
You’re talking about the the First Aliyah, and the anti-Jewish sentiments that arose in response were inherently tied to the Zionist nationalism among the new migrants who wanted to eject Arabs to form a Jewish ethnostate.
Zionism has always been a racist project. It smears all Jews with the crimes of the Zionist entity and directly and intentionally raises antisemitism around the world, forcing Jews to flee to Israel to become settlers. That’s partly why the global North supports it so strongly - it gets the Jews out of their countries.
The other reason is it whitens the so-called Middle East by injecting them with American and European settlers, and gives the empire a strong position in the region.
The racial component is definitely complicated, but Zionism is unquestionably wrong and racist and must be opposed. What is needed is a single multi-ethnic democratic state, not an Arab state or a Jewish state.
What? I’m pretty sure the British fucking stole it from the Turkish occupation, the Palestinians never had self determination.
I’m not talking about the Aliyah, I’m talking about the persecution of Jews in that area for 1000s of years. https://i.imgur.com/kl9n1jT.png
How can Zionism be a racist project when it is a mixed population with the majority being of middle eastern descent? https://i.imgur.com/9laOetm.png
Forgot to address your final point my apologies. Here is one of many pictures that can be found of Jews purchasing the land https://i.imgur.com/5fYx5Ud.jpg
What you said about the British stealing it may be true but why place the blame on Jews? The man in that picture doesn’t look British. They bought the land with money they saved up for to flee extermination in Europe.
Buying stolen land is not legitimate lol
That’s not about blame, that’s just about nationhood. A nation built on stolen land is always a settler-colony (looking at you Amerikkka)
The “persecution of Jews in that area for 1000s of years” in your link gives examples of Spanish antisemitism though. You’re doing the thing where you assume all Muslims are Arabs. Also it lists Christians being persecuted alongside them, no sure how you interpret that.
Now as for racism, it’s not like US racism where there’s a clear dividing line between races with whiteness being the privileged racial class.
It’s more like colorismo in Latin America, where the lightness of skin correlates with social, political, and economic privileges. There’s a reason why the ruling class in Israel all have light skinned faces and Arabs, even Jewish ones, deal with racial discrimination. A dark skinned Jew will need to prove their Jewishness in ways a light skinned one won’t.
However it does have a racial component similar to the US; free people of color were considered legally white if they had less than either one-eighth or one-quarter African ancestry, and in Israel you’re considered legally Jewish if you have at least one-eighth Jewish ancestry. Also? Inter-“faith” marriage is illegal, again similar to laws against interracial marriage in the US. Interesting parallels.
Okay, here are two more links detailing their persecution in the Middle East.
https://i.imgur.com/Tc0zvjq.jpg
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-01-24/ty-article-magazine/like-father-like-son-the-ottoman-governor-who-tortured-the-jews-of-jerusalem/0000017f-f7cc-d044-adff-f7fd35c00000