But I’ll say to everyone here the same thing I say to Americans. Yous need to be pushing hard for a better electoral system. First past the post shouldn’t qualify as democracy, in my opinion. It’s just that bad. IRV is the bare minimum that should be acceptable. But ideally, you should push for some sort of proportional system like STV or MMP.
Electoral reform should be every intelligent voter’s highest priority, because without it you’ll always be stuck with the same two parties doing the same dull shit.
I doubt a coalition of the two (which Starmer would undoubtedly agree to) wouldn’t be any better unfortunately…
The fact is the system isn’t broken, it’s working exactly as intended. Which is why we need to abolish it entirely. Hanging hopes on electoral politics is continuing to play the same rigged game hoping those in charge will change the rules… They aren’t going to.
By accepting that a revolution is necessary. There is no fixing (“reforming”) capitalism. Or a monarchy. Or a parliament that consists of an entire house of unelected “gentry”. The system was never meant to serve us and it never will.
Capitalism has been reformed, repeatedly. There are different forms of it, it evolves all the time. That was a key part of Marx’s philosophical stance, that capitalism was an ever-changing, revolutionary force, both destructive and creative; that was what he admired about it, in fact! Clement Attlee and other world leaders reformed capitalism with the Bretton Woods agreement and the many reforms we made post-war within countries. I think it’s very doubtful that a post-war revolution in the UK would’ve turned out well, given how the other post-war revolutions shaped up. Even Thatcher ‘reformed capitalism’ in this country (very much for the worse, obviously!).
Now, if you agree that these things are better than the alternative, that is the same thing as agreeing with reform. I think you and I probably agreee that the reforms didn’t go far enough, or even that it would be better to do away with some of these things altogether, but it’s not true to say that they can’t be reformed; abolishing the monarchy would be a reform, albeit a major one. Barbados did it very recently, again without a revolution. Even changing the Lords to an elected chamber or getting rid of the last Hereditary Peers would be reforms, and I imagine we’d both welcome them, up to a point!
With the right pressure, I think Labour might be convinced. The Conservatives only got a majority at the last election because of FPTP. The two elections before that were even worse for the Conservatives’ overall vote.
This is especially true if Labour is only able to govern in coalition with LibDems and SNP.
Lmfao, ok… You go ahead and pin your hopes on the person who has literally purged Labour of anyone even slightly left leaning, who thinks racism is a joke, who thinks how disabled people are treated is just fine, who doesn’t give a fuck about the poor, who is only there to serve the establishment - to change the system that offers him the only shot at power. See how that works out for you…
Meanwhile those of us already targeted by the government, who know new labour isn’t going to change a thing will continue to suffer while you folks pat yourselves on the back for picking the “lesser evil” because you’re too scared of actually standing up for yourselves.
Funnily enoguh I’m in a Labour safe seat and commented in another post my thiking on the vote:
I was gonna vote Green but they’re so non-existant in my constituency I may vote Lib Dem who are 4th. It’s a Labour safe seat so it’s not handing it to the Tories to vote my conscience.
I’m Green economically but Lib Dem socially. Since Lib Dems are higher I’ll put my vote there.
I am in a safe Labour seat but I’ll be voting Green. Labour lost my vote when they continued drifting to the right.
If you’re in a safe seat then by all means.
But I’ll say to everyone here the same thing I say to Americans. Yous need to be pushing hard for a better electoral system. First past the post shouldn’t qualify as democracy, in my opinion. It’s just that bad. IRV is the bare minimum that should be acceptable. But ideally, you should push for some sort of proportional system like STV or MMP.
Electoral reform should be every intelligent voter’s highest priority, because without it you’ll always be stuck with the same two parties doing the same dull shit.
Shame neither party are actually offering electoral reform (and why would they - the current form works perfectly well, for them)
@DessertStorms @GreyShuck @Fudoshin @Zagorath
That’s why I’m hoping that no party wins overall majority. PR is the only way things will change.
I doubt a coalition of the two (which Starmer would undoubtedly agree to) wouldn’t be any better unfortunately…
The fact is the system isn’t broken, it’s working exactly as intended. Which is why we need to abolish it entirely. Hanging hopes on electoral politics is continuing to play the same rigged game hoping those in charge will change the rules… They aren’t going to.
@DessertStorms @GreyShuck @Fudoshin @Zagorath
You’re right, but without a full-scale revolution how do we get there?
By accepting that a revolution is necessary. There is no fixing (“reforming”) capitalism. Or a monarchy. Or a parliament that consists of an entire house of unelected “gentry”. The system was never meant to serve us and it never will.
Capitalism has been reformed, repeatedly. There are different forms of it, it evolves all the time. That was a key part of Marx’s philosophical stance, that capitalism was an ever-changing, revolutionary force, both destructive and creative; that was what he admired about it, in fact! Clement Attlee and other world leaders reformed capitalism with the Bretton Woods agreement and the many reforms we made post-war within countries. I think it’s very doubtful that a post-war revolution in the UK would’ve turned out well, given how the other post-war revolutions shaped up. Even Thatcher ‘reformed capitalism’ in this country (very much for the worse, obviously!).
As to your specific points… we have reformed all those things, repeatedly. It’s really quite odd to point to a country that has a constitutional monarchy, which used to be an absolute monarchy, and insist there’s no reforming that monarchy. It’s the way it is because we reformed it. In fact, we last reformed it in 2013. And the Lords was last reformed in 2015. The Commons was also reformed, for the better, in 2015 to allow recall of MPs.
Now, if you agree that these things are better than the alternative, that is the same thing as agreeing with reform. I think you and I probably agreee that the reforms didn’t go far enough, or even that it would be better to do away with some of these things altogether, but it’s not true to say that they can’t be reformed; abolishing the monarchy would be a reform, albeit a major one. Barbados did it very recently, again without a revolution. Even changing the Lords to an elected chamber or getting rid of the last Hereditary Peers would be reforms, and I imagine we’d both welcome them, up to a point!
With the right pressure, I think Labour might be convinced. The Conservatives only got a majority at the last election because of FPTP. The two elections before that were even worse for the Conservatives’ overall vote.
This is especially true if Labour is only able to govern in coalition with LibDems and SNP.
Lmfao, ok… You go ahead and pin your hopes on the person who has literally purged Labour of anyone even slightly left leaning, who thinks racism is a joke, who thinks how disabled people are treated is just fine, who doesn’t give a fuck about the poor, who is only there to serve the establishment - to change the system that offers him the only shot at power. See how that works out for you…
Meanwhile those of us already targeted by the government, who know new labour isn’t going to change a thing will continue to suffer while you folks pat yourselves on the back for picking the “lesser evil” because you’re too scared of actually standing up for yourselves.
At the end of the day they need to win the election.
At this point I’d 100% take a shitty labour government that’s compromising, because it’s the first step to moving things back to the left.
If we had a better voting system then go for it, but I just think it’s silly for someone to waste a vote (if they aren’t in a safe seat).
Funnily enoguh I’m in a Labour safe seat and commented in another post my thiking on the vote: