• Many e-scooters IME are driven by idiots with a DUI. And they’re exploiting a loophole that lets you drive on the roads at road speeds even if you’ve lost your license for drunk driving.

          E-bikes are awesome though!

          • Here (in EU) I know lots of people who use them legitimately, but no one checks for removal of speed limiter.

            Now at least they have to have insurance so it may decrease the number of a-holes because it is easy to check.

      • escooters which are terrible

        That’s a bit of a stretch. They aren’t great, but they’re still better than a car, and a lot of the disadvantage is because of poor infrastructure and lack of courtesy by a lot of e-scooter riders. One of those is easier to fix than the other.

        E-bikes are way better than e-scooters, though, and I’d say e-bikes are more versatile.

      • There are two kinds of escooters, the rentable, and personal.

        The rentable escooter are absolute shit, they are scattered over cities, making is difficult for disabled people to get by, they promote use without helmets which increase severity and frequency of accidents, they also are driven recklessly.

        The personal escooters are mostly fine, people drive them less recklessly, often wear helmets and in general take better care of them.

        Both types are bad in that they move people away from existing public transport lowering demand meaning that public transport gets less money which lowers the quallity and again moves people away from public transport.

        Ebikes doesn’t have that direct cause and affect as they mostly replace cars, ebikes also tend to have less severe accidents as the result of the combination of larger wheels with better banace, a better riding possition with a lower center of gravity again improving balance

        • There’s a lack of infrastructure to accommodate rental scooters which cause the problems you mentioned. Having safe places to ride (i.e bike lanes) and designated places to park them would solve these issues. I could also argue that cars do all the same things.

          Reducing demand for public transport is a good thing in a developed city. You want there to be more space for people that aren’t going to choose micromobility, which is much cheaper for a city to provide more capacity for.

          I’d be interested to see some research into your theory of ebikes replacing more car journeys and escooters replacing more public transport journeys.

          I agree with your points on why ebikes are safer, but scooters are also more compact and therefore easier to transport and store when not riding, and the safety issue is really solved by having safe places to ride. Having the choice available is important because different people have different priorities and preferences.

          • Thr lack of infrastructure for rental scooters is intentional though. It makes their overhead non-existent while making their scooters the city’s problem. The Netherlands figured out how to do bike rentals decades ago, but just leaving a bike/scooter wherever is a menace to the community. People used to keave them in my yard or the middle of the sidewalk until my town banned them. Personal scooters are fine, but Bird and Lime are terrible.

            • Bike rental in the Netherlands is great for certain uses but not for others. You can’t use the OV-fiets as a tourist, and you generally have to take them back to where you got them from.

              Docked systems are better, and you can remove most of the cost of the docks by doing the “dockless docks” where you just have to return them to designated areas. This can work for both bikes and scooters.

              Companies like bird & lime take advantage of the lack of regulations, but there’s clearly a demand. Cities can take advantage of this by regulating, providing infrastructure, and charging the companies to operate, things already done for cars.

      •  stoy   ( @stoy@lemmy.zip ) 
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        5 months ago

        I just posted a comment about my reasons for making the distinction in this thread.

        EDIT, why is this being downvoted? I get that you may disagree with my viewpoints, downvote them if you must, but this is simply a comment letting a user know that I posted an explanation.

        • Your distinctions are invalid.

          My city has rental bikes that work similarly to rental escooters. Are they now bad?

          People here use helmets with them, same for rental scooters, which have designated parking areas here, same as bikes.

          Neither moves people away from transit. They are a last mile vehicle that people use to get to and from transit hubs, or to do short trips that would take longer to do by transit.

          Not to mention that this is a stupid argument. Multimodal transit is the highest form of public transit. Only idiots want to replace all private vehicle ownership with public systems or all cars with mass transit. The greatest transit capacity is achieved when deploying all modes simultaneously.

          Your distinctions are based on how something happens to be utilized around your local area, and the etiquette that has (or rather hasn’t) developed around using a given vehicle.

          There is nothing about electric scooters that stops them from being used in an equally reasonable manner as any other mode of travel.

          Your problem is with local norms and people. Not the vehicle type.

          • If the rentable bikes are just scattered throughout the city with no regard for pedestrians or traffic, then yes, they are bad.

            If that doesn’t happen, then no, they are fine.

            Here in Stockholm the transit authority has noticed a shift from public transport toward escooters, it seems to have stabalized for now, but that could easily change.

            Our healthcare system has also noticed a big uptick in patients who has had their jaw smashed, all from escooter accidents, people have been run down and have been injured by escooter drivers, some has even died.

            I am happy that it works for you, but in my experience rentable escooters is just plain dumb.