Analysts have warned Windows 10 end of life plans could spark a global torrent of e-waste, with millions of devices expected to be scrapped in the coming years.
Research from Canalys shows that up to 240 million PCs globally could be terminated as a result of the shift over to Windows 11, raising critical questions about device refreshes and the responsibility of vendors to extend life cycles.
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If only you could put linux on them so they get security updates and give those to poor kids. Shame that is not possible. /s
It’s not possible. I need software that runs only on windows, so as much as I’d like to I can never switch. The only thing I can do is maybe do a vm passthrough thing - except I don’t want to spend a couple of grand on a new pc. People have jobs, real jobs, we have to work instead of fucking around distro hopping. A whole bunch of people could possibly switch to linux, but it’s still such a major pain in the ass that nobody will do it unless they are forced into it. Expect hacked win 11 installs
While I agree with you that some software isn’t capable of running on Linux (even through wine), there is another aspect that’s important to remember. Want and choice. The software that doesnt run on Linux is developed only for Windows because of market share. If more people used Linux, and more importantly, demanded Linux support, more software would support it. I WANT to use Linux instead of windows, so in order for that to become a reality, I push companies to support it and I talk to people and encourage trying Linux out. Can everyone make the switch? No, but some can; and the more that do the more Linux will be supported.
Your voice and opinion and choice matters. Don’t let a big corporation steal that from you. Even if you want to use Windows, you should still have the choice.
The “give those to poor kids” part was such a foreign concept you failed to even acknowledge the words existence. wow.
I have no idea what you’re about here
So,
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you’re called an exception, not a rule. Just because YOU need windows doesn’t mean literally no one would have have use for ewaste revived through Linux.
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I run programs made exclusively for windows on Linux using wine daily. And
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maybe you like to fuck around distro hopping when you use Linux, the rest of us just fucking use our computers like a normal person. (See, I can be condescending too).
I’m called the vast majority. I can’t use my software on wine because it’s not supported by my vendors. It’s nice that you use things, but try working in architecture, civil engineering and construction and let me know how that works for you.
Let me be even more condescending - I use things I need to do my work. I don’t jerk off to linux or windows. If there was an option to move to mac I would do it. That’s using a thing like normal person, you use thing get money
I disagree, the vast majority just need a browser, your use case may be quite common, but definitely not the majority.
Wow, I didn’t know poor children were allowed to be civil engineers, that’s so progressive! /s
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Wine works pretty well for a large percentage of Windows programs
Wine is not a practical solution for your average user.
It is actually. On distros that come pre installed with wine, running windows programs is as easy as clicking on the exe just like on windows and if it’s not pre installed than its easy to do.
give those to poor kids
People have jobs, real jobs, we have to work
If you are a kid forced to have a job, blink twice and CPS will be dispatched (hopefully).
Ok I’ll bite. What’s the software you “need”?
Oh I don’t “need” it at all, like I don’t “need” my job, electricity or running water. Autodesk shit, some other things. Imagine - it doesn’t work on anything except windows. And it’s like that for 70 or 80 percent of my colleagues (there are things for apple). And let me tell you, Autodesk barely want to make thigs work on windows, they hate their customers for real
A lot of Congolese children died in humiliating and painful ways for that e-waste. Now many more will suffer and die. The good news is that Microsoft executives are probably getting a great bonus out of it for their stellar leadership and business acumen.
Since all the.“but you can disable this”, “just switch to Linux that” posts are already going strong, I’d like to remind everyone that many, many of those devices will be from businesses and are on some sort of leasing agreement. Since.the business needs to safeguard itself against IT fault related costs, they will not circumvent TPM, not because there would be anything wrong with doing that, but because they do not want to provide a target for insurers and lawsuits when they use their PCs in “an unsupported configuration”. Businesses see their PCs very differently than private ppl do and “just switch to Linux” will be so much more expensive that they will not do that. They’ll just get delivered new stuff from their leasing partner and that’ll be that.
In all honesty. Most business laptops will have recent TPM anyway. Simply because if you give employees laptops you damn well want bitlocker on them. Where I work they’re changed every 2 years anyway. People lose laptops. It’s just a fact of life and you want some protection for the data on there.
Desktops, not so sure. For home users, there are of course very simple tools to make customised Win 11 boot USBs removing the fake requirements. But I’d say that the majority of users still couldn’t install an operating system at all. So if windows cannot upgrade itself, they’ll sit on unsupported win 10 or have to buy a new one.
If you can install windows, you can install the customised one I’d wager. The skill level is about the same.
TPM performing the lock in they failed with thus far.
Linux can breathe life into older laptops (if the HW is supported). It’s not for everyone (and downright infuriating in some ways) but it it does work very well for many things.
It is only frustrating for folks used to a different os.
FWIW, I used it as a daily driver for many years. And that was back in the days when things weren’t as easy.
Unfortunately, to run the stuff I need to run, I’m pretty much stuck with Windows and WSL. (But with Linux on my old laptop.)
I’m probably not the audience that needs convincing, though.
So, “give those to poor kids”, and use your proprietary software in the OS you are allowed to use. Not seeing the issue.
use your proprietary software in the OS you are allowed to use. Not seeing the issue.
The OS they are able to use is Windows 10. They likely don’t meet the TPM requirements to update to Windows 11(as if you’d wanna use it anyways); so when W10 goes EoL, they will be SoL(shit out of luck) on getting future security patches. Which is y’know, bad, especially on the machine you do actual work on.
Not sure I follow (especially wrt poor kids?) - maybe I’m just missing the reference. I applaud using Linux on old stuff to breath life into it. But I suspect mass adoption would be harder than one might think. Easy to convince tech savvy folk to dive in and wrangle with it (for its numerous advantages and disadvantages), but the majority of folks won’t (they’d sooner move to Apple - with even more waste, proprietary bs, and cost).
Not saying this should be the case, merely that it is the case. (The more adoption, the better chance of better support from developers/HW manus, etc. There’s just a leap that seems very hard to make. Wish I knew how to bridge it, but the obstacles seem less of a technical thing than a social/psychological thing)
Someone should open a business taking free perfectly good laptops people were going to throw out, putting Linux on them, and reselling them.
Goodwill could do this with anything they get donated.
Free Geek here in Portland OR used to do this. Might still be doing it too, but I haven’t been back there since 2018 so I’m not 100% sure.
But yeah, the last I was there, you could walk in and just buy a refurbished laptop or desktop with Linux on it. They would even give guidance on what people needed if they weren’t tech-savvy.
I’ve seen this done. Store lasted for a bout a year, which is longer than I would have expected given the obsolete e-waste they were selling for extortionate prices. This was only a few years ago, but most of the laptops they were offering still had 4:3 displays and disc drives, that’s how ancient they were. Hell, one of them had a floppy drive.
That’s wild. There’s a place here in Melbourne that sells refurbished Dell Optiplex’s. They’re ~8yrs old and still perfectly functional machines. For $100 you can get a full setup with a 16:9 monitor, keyboard and mouse. If you’re on unemployment they’ll sell it to you for $50 so you can look for work online.
That seems like a much better way of doing things.
The I.T. firm I run does this except we donate them to nonprofits.
When I read the title I was like “How would you torrent ewaste?” I’m going back to sleep.
Linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux.
Which distro?
ALL OF THEM.
Linux
+1 for Mint, +1 for Ubuntu
Debian.
Windows 10 has a 32bit version, Debian is one of the few distros that still support 32bit, so to stay safe… Debian.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2023/12/msg00003.html
we anticipate that the kernel, d-i and images teams will cease to support i386 in the near future.
Damn… it seems like they’re only going to support arm32 and amd64 in the SLTS. I still have some Eee 901 with touchscreen mod running 32bit Linux reasonably well. I know they’re 15 years old now, but it will be a pity to see them go.
man I love those old Eee PC’s! my dad gave me his old Eee 900 one when I was like 14 and I put Lubuntu on it and it was such a blast having this tiny little laptop I could take anywhere with a snes controller and play snes games on it without it taking any room, it came with a really cool Asus case made for it too. Sadly its just been sitting on my shelf collecting some dust not really sure what to do with it.
I’ve been really enjoying PopOS lately. All my Steam games have run perfectly on it with no mucking around.
I hear Mint is great if you want something simpler.
Why would 240 million devices be scrapped? Just install Windows 11 or Linux on them. If you have a PC built in the last 6 years, you can probably run an OEM version of 11 if your settings in 10 is saying you don’t qualify.
This post just highlights just how woefully technologically unsavvy the average person is.
Windows 11 actually won’t run on all of them due to inconsiderate and arbitrary system requirements… but otherwise yes.
Windows 11 officially requires Secure Boot and TPM 2.0, but can easily be run with just TPM 1.2, and with some effort even without TPM. All the other system requirement increases (like single to dual core, 2 to 4 GB RAM, etc.) don’t really play a role for any recently built PC anyway.
In the case of business’s, liability reasons, real and imagined, mostly prevent just “switching” OS’s freely.
In the case of home users, think of how many people you know that have a windows computer. Now how many of those people can you confidently say could install ANY OS, let alone handle setting up Linux or bypassing TPM requirements for W11?
Personally, out of the hundreds of people I know with a windows computer, I can count on my fingers how many I’m confident in being able to install an OS. Most people are really not tech savvy. They will just ride it out with no security patches until it becomes Jenn’s laptop from the IT Crowd, and then they’ll chuck it in the garbage.
I have a PC I built a year and a half ago and apparently it “doesn’t meet the requirements” for windows 11…
Ryzen 5 5600x and a 3060 TI.
The cpu should support windows 11. Have you enabled fTPM in the bios?
That sounds like a solvable issue for me. The upgrade health check tells you exactly what prevents you from upgrading.
My system gets flagged as not applicable as wellndue to secire boot not being active. I could resolve it by enabling it, but since I still have an old MBT Id need to switch that aswell. Which I procastinate, as I won’t get nagged to upgrade to win11
I never completely reset everything in the last few years, although I upgraded some components and did some Windows reset. The MBR never was part of it…
Windows 11 is adware and spyware wrapped in a thin OS veneer. I will never upgrade, end of support or no.
And this is why I refuse to touch anything but Windows Pro, stable channel.
Yes, it costs extra, and it comes with some ads, and I don’t get the “honor” of beta testing the latest bells and whistles for a month or two, and laptop vendors still put their crapware on it… but once I disable all the nasty stuff, it stays disabled.
Windows 11 needs Secure Boot and/or TPM workarounds, and while Linux is better than it used to be, but it still hates peripherals. Only 5% of Americans work in the tech industry. Fry cooks and forklift operators often lack the education needed to find these workarounds, and are too busy and tired making ends meet to seek out that education.
In the modern corporate environment, most companies would rather replace their machines wholesale than risk unplanned downtime due to unforeseen glitches. They apply the principles of preventative maintenance to IT.
I like Linux (Mint is good stuff), and I believe in what it stands for. But the human desire for simplicity, reliability, and familiarity should never be construed as a lack of virtue.
Fucking M$ being M$
What?
Minimum system requirements for installing Windows 11 on a PC mean users must have a processor of at least 1 GHz or faster along with a minimum of 4GB RAM. Storage requirements are also set to a minimum of 64G
Like you can’t exactly blame MS for people still using old arse components.
Likewise if people wanted they could keep using windows 10 or switch to a Linux distro to keep the machines running.
You also need a pc that has TPM 2.0 enabled. My 3yr old PC doesn’t have that enabled by default and I’m not even sure what that is or if the motherboard supports it (nor do I care, it’s keeping Microsoft from forcefully upgrading me to windows 11).
If you really want to use windows 11, download an ISO and flash it on a USB using https://rufus.ie/it/ You can disable TPM by checking a box in rufus
You’re probably better off using windows 10 LTSC (or LTSC IOT), which are long term support win10 versions aimed at enterprise, with the only real difference being they come devoid of bloatware and they are supported for many more years than the consumer version.
Even better, think about “making the jump” and upgrade to linux. The most beginner-oriented distros are stupid easy to use (and with a better UI and UX than windows imo), you do not need to use the command line at all, they will support your hardware and they will most likely have the exact programs and games you use.
I have no intention of upgrading to windows 11. I do plan on making the jump to Linux when Valve (hopefully) releases the arch-based version of SteamOS.
You don’t need to wait for valve to game on Arch. Just install steam on endeavourOS
I assume the longterm support version of windows 10 costs money.
AFAIK the upgrade to 11 is free.
Both’s LTSC channels cost money.
You can probably just enable it in the bios/uefi. Most modern CPUs have integrated TPM
I have a old gaming laptop that is not supported.
Intel i7-7820HK, 4cores 8 threads 2.9Ghz.
Released in 2017.
That’s not old-arse as far as I’m concerned, and I don’t see the need for an upgrade. I’m going to install Linux on this PC because I have the know-how and desire to check out how electron fares. But I can see how that is not an option for everyone.
I’ll be forced to switch to linux when 10 reaches end of life, but I’m genuinely not looking forward to it. I’ve tried it before and given up after hours of hair pulling. Not linux’s fault necessarily. Often driver issues.
That’s the thing a lot of fanboys forget. They often install linux on hardware they handpicked to be compatible on a pc they assembled themselves. Most casual users are upgrading an existing non-self assembled system, which may or may not be compatible, and contain parts that don’t have good driver support. Eg. a cheap realtek card that was never sold to consumers directly, meaning it would only be installed in windows systems.
Honestly, I may just not bother. Go on ebay, buy something newer. Shame though. System runs fine. Happily runs Cyberpunk and stuff like that. TBF because I’m a cheap bastard, I only have 500 euros invested in the thing. Bought it at aldi when it was discounted. Upgraded it with second hand ebay parts. LOL.
Drivers for new/cutting edge hardware will often lag behind for linux. Installing on hardware that is a few years old will generally be a breeze if you choose one of the big name distros. I personally use Linux Mint for the “it just works” ease.
Yeah. In my case linux Mint just didn’t.
Older hardware, lack of (good) drivers, mini-pc so not feasible to install a new network card, I tried, I really did. But I eventually gave up.
Great if it works, but sometimes you’re just SOL.
If it’s your own personal system, you will not be forced to switch to Linux or buy new hardware when windows 10 reaches EOL. Just keep using it…
The folks pretending that the EoL date for W10 is appropriate, are the new computer every two years and throw the old one out crew.
CPU’s 6 years and older are not supported. That isn’t old. I was using a 6 year old CPU perfectly happily until this year.
I also don’t have a TPM module so I am still unsupported anyway.
So an unsupported work around. cool, cool
True I can do that but most people won’t. I am not expecting my less tech savvy friends to even try if they even do know about this workaround.
What is “old arse” to you might be blazing fast and great for someone else (potentially in a less fortunate area of this world), and besides that, no matter your or my sensobilities, if it works, it works and should be kept that way as long as it has a purpose and the hardware permits it.
The issue is TPM, and nothing else.
I think it’s mainly businesses and not users who will keep using it without support.
As for the other I switched to Linux, but I can’t seem to keep it running. I currently have no computer until I get another distro onto a bootable USB. Fortunately my /home partition seems fine but my root partition broke. It would start in recovery mode but not otherwise. Tried fixing it and now it’s broke worse.
I’m a very technical person. Expecting people to move to Linux because they don’t want or have TPM2.0 is not going to work.
I’m a moderately technical person and every single time I’ve tried Linux in the past 20+ years it went like this: Huh, this isn’t so bad, I might use it more of- oh wait, never mind, a cryptic error message just appeared, because I had the audacity to plug some device in or download some generic application so I had to use the terminal again for some incredibly mundane thing and it only worked after I tried three different approaches from forum posts so old I needed to use the Wayback Machine to be able to read the guides they linked to. Those guides naturally omitted vital details that I only noticed, because I’ve been trying to use Linux for over 20 years and actually read a book or two on this mess. It doesn’t matter which distro, which device, which use case, it’s always like this.
The very best “Linux for the masses” I’ve used so far (outside of Android) is SteamOS on the Steam Deck, but even it falls apart the moment you venture outside of the user-friendly walled garden that is the Steam application.
So issues only when doing something other than browse the web and read email, like most folks only ever do? And a walled garden is exactly what most folks actually need since they won’t avoid clicking everything they see. So like on mobile, most folks want the curated don’t have to worry about it. That was the whole selling point of Apple all these years.
Sure, but I’ve experienced hiccups that would never occur in Windows with things as mundane as hooking up a printer, which is well within the realm of what a normal person is using their computer for.
Also, you can fault Apple for many things, but a lack of polish and a poor user experience aren’t among them. I’ve used Apple devices five times in the last ten years and each time I was, with no prior knowledge nor the need to look anything up, able to help people with their issues and quickly. Linux is the polar opposite of that.
I fail to see how that meas that poor folk who only need to browse the internet and read email couldn’t use it and thus it should be trashed.
Not the person you were talking to, but I used my computer for browsing, development and a few steam games. I’m not trying to do rocket science. You know what seemed to fuck up my system? The system/software updater. Maybe the graphics drivers, but maybe not. That’s pretty basic bitch level Linux.
That said, Chromebooks are fine for the demographic you are taking about, and those are Linux.
the basic requirements (compute power, ram, storage) to install windows hasn’t really changed at all since like vista or 7. dual core and 4gb ram were common even back at vista’s launch (and earlier, even. many late xp systems shipped with those specs).
due to bloat these older systems (like dual core windsor am2/dual core wolfdale lga775) fall flat with 10; but swap their original mechanical hdd for sata ssd and feed 'em at least 4gb ram and they run 10 as well as 7 or 8.
Microsoft promised Win 10 to be the last version and failed
it was a false/inaccurate quote, afaik, but my thinking after hearing it was…
yea, last one we’ll buy, everything after will be a subscription.
might be ‘postponed’ a few versions (my guess is whatever’s after 12), but i’m certain that’s still microsoft’s end goal: subscriptions and only subscriptions.
At the 2015 Ignite conference, Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon stated that Windows 10 would be the “last version of Windows”, a statement reflecting the company’s intent to apply the software as a service business model to Windows, with new versions and updates to be released over an indefinite period
Doesn’t seem like a false quote
But incorrectly quoted as “Microsoft promised…”. It was one low-tier Microsoft employee who said it once, in a side note of a conference talk that was not about the future of Windows.
He is a Senior Software Development Engineer and was a Developer Evangelist at Microsoft, the latter of which apparently translates to press person. So not low-tier but probably side note
A developer evangelist is not a press person, but a developer that gives talks to other developers. I didn’t find any specific numbers, but Microsoft probably has hundreds of them. And anyway you wouldn’t expect that kind of announcement to be made by anyone who isn’t like C-level, in a presentation made specifically for that fact, accompanied by a big marketing campaign, and so on.
A lot of countries also have hundreds of press people, and being the last version they’ll release doesn’t sound like a very marketable thing or something you should market, plus the media already spread the evangel by storm
They’re plan to move everyone onto a subscription plan by locking everyone in failed.
I don’t think it’s fair to jump on Microsoft for this one. Windows 10 has been out for almost 10 years. Apple gives less support for systems than 10 years, they are closer to 8, which is still a while.
If you bought a PC in 2018 or later it should support tpm in the CPU, if it doesn’t it’s on Dell or HP or whomever made the system. If you built a pc you can buy a TPM for most motherboards.
Microsoft said you can pay for updates for windows 10 if you want. If your parents core i5-2700 with 4gb of ram from 2012 will no longer get free updates… that seems fair… or go to Linux, but we know most people won’t. Honestly it would be a great time for a “convert to chromeOS installer”
I don’t think it’s fair to jump on Microsoft for this one. Windows 10 has been out for almost 10 years. Apple gives less support for systems than 10 years, they are closer to 8, which is still a while.
it is absolutely fair to blame Microsoft, because they promised their customers, device manufacturers, and even businesses that Windows 10 was going to be their last OS, and flipped that switch out of nowhere when they realized they could be making more money.
Windows 12 supposedly going to be subscription based I feel like is a great example.
I think that it’s absolutely fair to jump on Microsoft for this.
There is nothing wrong with this hardware. RAM and CPU clock speed plateaued a long time ago. The overwhelming majority of these systems being thrown away would run Linux flawlessly.
Microsoft has never given a damn about security before. These new security “features” do more to lock people in than they do to keep them safe.
This. It is so sad that these companies get to set arbitrary expiration dates on perfectly good hardware for “security” features nobody asked for. They keep getting away with planned obsolesence and monopolistic moves, by fearmongering about security. Even if the “solutions” does nothing to secure the users. The only thing they care about securing is their profit.
I think the point of contention is that Windows 10 works fine, there is no need to move to Windows 11 except that Microsoft has found new ways to monetise the OS through its data, so they are making Windows 10 end of life
Exactly. I use 10 at home and at work and have no issues with either. There’s no technical reason for anyone to upgrade.
Ms should continue security patches are get fined for the e-waste they will cause.
Ammm corporations, which are the tits that milks Microsoft shit, are still using windows 10 and will not go to 11