I got banned from the forums after having been considered “too combative” for not taking it lightly that a moderator lectured me on unrelated forum etiquette rules.
I wanted to discuss a legitimate technical issue, which turned out to be coil whine - at the time I did not know it was called that. A community member offered some advice, and I asked them kindly whether they would like to remove a particular question which I’ve answered in the very previous original post. They became offended by the very suggestion of this and deleted their whole reply, including the useful stuff. The moderator stepped in here and gave me a petty little lecture on all kinds of behavior norms, which I one by one refuted - to no avail, the thread just got locked.
Ok, fresh start. Let’s open another topic because I’m not here to bicker - I have an issue to discuss. The new topic got closed within 10 minutes by a mod, threatening me with a ban if I open it again.
I thought that was kinda ridiculous, because I’m a Framework customer and I want to discuss an issue with my laptop, so I opened anothe topic. Sure enough, it got closed and I got banned for a month.
A month has passed, and my problem is still there. One day when I’m browsing the interwebs to understand my issue, I stumble upon another Framework forum post discussing the same thing. My ban being lifted, I jump into the conversation and confirm that I have the same issue, and I share my story of having been banned after trying to discuss this. As you might guess, a mod appears, closes this topic as well, and states that the real reason I’ve been banned is that I have… wait for it… FREIGHT FORWARDED! And proceeds to permaban me on the spot with the notice “too combative”! What the hell, Framework!!!
I hadn’t freight forwarded and I have no possible explanation as to why this mod was jumping at me like that. Anyway, let’s take to reddit to complain about this. Quickly, a mob of zealous Framework fans forms, trampling over each other trying to lecture me that freight forwarding is prohibited etc… I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT FREIGHT FORWARDING! I was complaining about a mod accusing me of freight forwarding and banning me for this bogus reason! And guess what - eventually the thread gets shut down after inevitably devolving into a discussion of freight forwarding (to which Framework has a similarly bogus attitude, although that has changed slightly with them conceding to European single market regulations) - the Reddit thread gets locked as well and I get permabanned from the subreddit for “discussing freight forwarding”!
Ever since, I message the mods on Reddit every now and then, reminding them of the utterly crazy way they’ve been treating me, and the usual response is just a temporary mute so that I can’t message them further.
Does anyone else have a similar experience?
So, not sure how to say this on the Internet with kind intentions coming through, but that’s my intent.
All of the above sounds completely reasonable on part of the mods. Community norms are incredibly important for maintaining community cohesion. Unmoderated descend into hate speech remarkably quickly.
Essentially, someone helped you then asked a clarifying question. Instead of kindly saying “thank you! I think I answered that in the OP when I said [quote], but let me know if that’s not what you mean!” it sounds like you were a jerk to someone who was volunteering their time to help you.
Then a mod comes and tells you not to be a jerk to the volunteers helping you, and you try to “rules lawyer” the mod.
In the new thread did you mention that your previous thread was closed for no reason? If so, completely reasonable it was closed. Even if not, I think the mod’s mistake was not giving you a temporary ban immediately for being a jerk and not following community norms, not for deleting your second identical thread where you’re likely to be combative again.
I could go on, but at every turn you have blamed other people for shutting you down. The only common denominator here is you.
Tone is very hard to read over the Internet, so miscommunications and misreading intent is very common. This means that being misinterpreted is the norm in the Internet, and isn’t personal. Just kindly clarify your intent/meaning and move on. There’s no point arguing over the Internet, especially with someone in charge of policing content who doesn’t have any shits to give about replying to a wall of text telling them they don’t know what they’re doing.
Being a customer didn’t give you any special privileges or rights to ignore community norms and rules.
Take a break and try to be more kind next time.
Community norms are incredibly important for maintaining community cohesion. Unmoderated descend into hate speech remarkably quickly.
Then disallow hate speech and take action on it. Easy.
you were a jerk to someone who was volunteering their time to help you
Was I really? Here’s my comment to them:
I’ve stated in the post that the sound is on no matter whether the laptop is plugged in or not. Would you mind deleting this question so as to not clutter the topic?
And here’s their later response admitting that they overreacted:
I admit openly I got pissed because I spend valuable time here trying to help others on my own will but asking me to delete a question “to not clutter your topic” felt rude and out of place.
There is no harm in repeating it once again, I sincerly did not see the statement about the power source.
Either way, hope you get this sorted. Sorry for my bad mood. All the best.
They literally said exactly what I suggested you’d done: there’s no harm in repeating the information!
Don’t know what now to say to you, friend. Maybe also that norms are important for keeping spaces positive places for everyone, and being defensive and combative isn’t a helpful strategy anywhere in life, least of all online where there are no visual cues to help read people.
I hope you use this as a chance for introspection and growth. :)
He/she admitted he/she had overreacted and apologized for it, but the mods were already jumping on the opportunity to exert moderatory power as a means to reaffirm their control. Clear as day. I have looked into myself and found no malice or resentment. All I’m trying to do is raise awareness of corporate abuse of powers with the hope of sparking awareness of it and demand for change. What they are doing is manipulating public opinion of themselves for profit - banning someone over bogus claims is a means to that end. This conversation here has devolved into a cesspit of ad hominem on my person, with nobody being able to provide one example of me mistreating a single person. I appreciate your kind words to help me get support, but that is also beside the point. The point is we shouldn’t put up with such disingenious behavior from companies and that’s why I provided my story. I hope you and others can learn from it for the greater good.
It sounds like every step of the way, on multiple sites, everyone you’ve interacted with has told you they find your tone combative and your behavior unacceptable.
Usually, when everyone around you in multiple different contexts tells you you’re wrong, you’re probably wrong.
Many people tell me I’m wrong, and usually what they mean is I’m annoying. They are also ignoring the points I’m right about. Nothing new there. I want people to focus on how Framework is overstepping the boundaries though, because I’m not the important issue here. You will probably never interact with me ever again, so why focus on my traits? Framework is here to stay in the public space, so let’s focus on what they are doing wrong - and you know what? People do understand this, and they feel powerless about it, and they take it out on me instead as a form of cognitive dissonance reduction. I don’t blame anyone for doing this. But do note how much effort people suddenly put into correcting the behavior of someone they have no interest in. Funny, isn’t it?
What we are trying to teach you is that nobody cares if your right, or wrong.
They care if their future interactions with framework will be good or bad, your not giving anyone actionable data that their future interactions with framework will be bad.
Your experience is basically - If you go start a fight with a company, they ban you. Noted, most people thinking about buying a framework laptop arn’t also planning on starting fights, so your experience isn’t transferable.
I want people to think about more than their selfish interest and act as a society that demands more from corporations. One that demands fair treatment, one that doesn’t condone permabanning people for being annoying. Despite the noise, I’m convinced it’s working. There are voices that seem to understand this, and I am positive that over time people who will find this thread will be shocked at the vitriol people let out at my report. It will make future readers think and try to understand why it’s important to raise the stink I’m raising. We have a choice - we can be individuals taken advantage of or a society that stands up for norms that serve everyone’s interest. Shutting people up forever for being annoying is not one of those norms. That’s the norm of an aggressive mob.
I think you’re lost in your own head. Nobody in this discussion has said framework was in the wrong for removing you from the forums for being disruptive.
Sure you can fight the goods fight about open free spaces and allowing annoying people to participate. And you can run a Lemmy instance for that. You can’t, and you probably will never be able to, force other people to accept your annoyance in their house. Which is what you want. And I don’t think you will find general support to allow you to annoy other people on your own terms on their systems
Yikes. Literally everything you said here is a red flag and then someone went and provided links to your behavior to solidify those red flags. Please stop treating those that just try to help you in that manner. It’s incredibly rude and hurtful.
Incredibly rude sentence from me towards person who was just try to help me. You copy it here. Now, or your statement is retracted.
I don’t know what your sentence means, but it doesn’t seem nice. Dude you really need to learn to communicate with others on the internet better.
They’re trying to command you to either provide an example of them being “incredibly rude” to someone helping them or delete your comment. This person feels like a caricature of an internet dweller, it’s pretty great.
gave me a petty little lecture on all kinds of behavior norms, which I one by one refuted
The fact that you’re in here ranting about it, and boasting about “refuting” them, shows maybe they had a point.
That’s blunt, but… hey. You were asking someone for help, then looking the gift horse in the mouth, then “refuting” suggestions that it could rub people the wrong way. If people weren’t already annoyed, that will definitely do the trick.
Maybe you didn’t intend to, I can sympathize somewhat, but that is definitely how it comes across just by reading this.
I’m sure they had some points, although the original mod’s citings were utterly irrelevant and the whole lecture was just incoherent drivel, you can go check it out if you’re interested.
I understand it rubs people the wrong way. I’m holding them to higher standards though - to standards of not banning people based on being “rubbed the wrong way”. That’s… backwards. Human civilization is built on higher understanding, not acting on knee jerk feelings. And I assume fully that Framework is not acting on knee jerk feelings, they know very well what they are doing. And it’s terrifying.
It really doesn’t matter. No matter how right you think you are: if you do this sort of thing, people will likely think you are being a dick.
No I think it really does matter. Public opinion can be shifted. It has huge inertia but people should be pushing it in the right way to begin with.
Not when you’re clearly in the wrong.
People try to help you and you turn it into pissing contest. You’d rather focus on feeding your ego than being appreciative. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind would want to help someone so condescending and fixated on fueling their fragile ego.
I’ve come out of this thread thinking more about Framework, not less.
Best of luck, particularly if this is the way you try to fix the issue.
Right or wrong. You’re clearly a very combative person.
- You’re here litigating the issue. 2. In your original post you rebutted each of your warning points. 3. You made a new post, also talking about how your last post was deleted. 4. And then in a different thread when you were responding with a comment, you also mentioned that you were previously twice deleted. 5. You’re not talking about coil whine even now.
I suspect if you made a fresh post, after a bit of cool down time, and only talked about coil whine and. didn’t mention anything at all regarding your previous moderator interactions. IE not being meta… It would have been fine.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong, you could be right. But needing to be right invites conflict.
Honestly, especially on the internet, nobody cares if you were treated unfairly in the past and have emotional baggage, doubly so on technical forums.
Stay focused on the topic (the technology), start every interaction fresh giving people the benefit of the doubt and you will have a good time.
after a bit of cool down time
This is the crux of the issue. I should not be responsible for managing moderator’s emotions with cool down time. They should be, period.
edit: to clarify, I have started an entirely fresh thread. It was the moderators carrying vengeance for me. Here’s the evidence: https://community.frame.work/t/extremely-high-pitched-sound-coming-from-around-cpu/29975
As you say this is the crux of the issue. Your emotional state is coloring your ability to have a conversation constructively.
You need to cool down, and approach threads without previous emotional baggage
I suspect if you made a fresh post, after a bit of cool down time, and only talked about coil whine and. didn’t mention anything at all regarding your previous moderator interactions. IE not being meta… It would have been fine.
I did make a fresh post, only talking about coil whine, not mentioning anything at all regarding my previous moderator interactions, IE I was not being meta. That’s my point. I was totally cool.
The moderators weren’t. That’s a problem. For you and for me. My attitude is not a real problem to anyone. You are free to abandon this conversation any time. Framework and its business policies are here to stay.
I read that as you needing the cool down time.
I didn’t need cooldown time, my follow up threads were entirely focused on the coil whine. I didn’t carry any combative attitude with me. It was the mods who didn’t cool down and shut down my further attempts to discuss the topic because of my person.
I mean, looking at your other replies here? You’re combative and need cool down time. Maybe try logging out for a few days to clear your head.
You can’t even hold a conversation of short, written sentences and you’re saying I need to clear my head? Someone needs to look into the mirror. You were the one who said you read @jet@hackertalks.com’s remark of “cooldown time” as me needing cooldown time, and I’m letting you know that I didn’t need cooldown time because I was completely cool and started a new thread entirely on topic. Now you’re confusing your own sentence of having interpreted “needing cooldown time” to me in the past with stating it now about me in the present. It’s ridiculous how instantly you turn to demeaning ad hominem remarks once you identify someone as a bad person.
You’re nitpicking and arguing with other comments you disagree with. That’s combative.
This reads like you’re emotionally invested in this quite heavily, and you’re having a hard time seeing other perspectives. Take a day or two to walk away, then come back when you’re in a more regulated space and try to read the original comments here again and reflect on things within your locus of control: your actions and your response to your emotions.
I hope you can see the kindness of the many people here trying to help you. ♥️
Edit: In a couple days, try again to read to understand, not reading to find the mistakes/problems.
So what if I’m combative? How does that affect your life? Something about my story is irking people, and it’s all too easy to project it onto my combative behavior. I say it’s indeed the way Framework is subtly but obscenely overstepping boundaries. Can’t do anything about this message? A rational first reaction is to hate the messenger. <3
That’s exactly what I was saying. You need to stop fighting battles online. Each post should have a clear conscience, no emotional baggage from previous post with different people. You don’t need to fight every fight. Just focus on the post topic. No need to sling mud, or try to re-litigate previous moderation decisions
https://community.frame.work/t/extremely-high-pitched-constant-sound-coming-from-laptop/29861
I didn’t think it would be that bad but holy lols
Tl;Dr op is an insufferable prick and rightly gets shut down by the mods every time he tries to stir the pot again.
Yikes, that shows paper thin level of understandingbof others and desire to meet in the middle
Being kind and courteous to others goes a long way to getting assistanc. Most forum users are not company employees. If support is not available in your country, you are dependent on these volunteers and it would be pragmatic to set aside your perceived grievences to get the help that you are seeking.
Remember that you are not entitled to any assistance from forum users, such as those that tried to figure out your issue. Nor are you entitled to use a privately-owned community forum - it is not violating free speech to require decorum, even in public forums in most jurisdictions. And, as for support, you are only entitled to what is in your contract or that which is afforded in the laws governing the company’s business.