im 20 for reference. ever since i was a kid, up until hs, we were forced every morning to stand, look at the flag and hold our hearts and say:
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”
i didnt stand a single time because i disagreed with being forced, and i was berated by the teacher in front of everyone, and he threatened to kick me out of class if i ever did it again. i was about 11-12 then.
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As an outsider, I find it very cultish to pledge to a piece of cloth.
It absolutely is, doubly so because of the added and unneeded “under god” bs that gets shoved into everything…
that was a huge issue i had with it too, but i omitted that so i didnt seem like an edgy tween atheist (though its a 100% valid criticism that i should have included).
That’s actually relatively recent, which is way, given the meter of the poem, it feels a little shoe-horned in. It was.
I wanna say it was in the 60s or so? Essentially as a way to promote a devout Christian image of America to contrast against the godless Soviets.
no doubt, i 100% find it very cult-like and disgusting, and i had realized it then too.
It’s very strange. It’s a very doublethink cult. The same people who worship the flag will vote to not give health benefits to 9/11 first responders. Those same people will then use american flag napkins.
Since I became an adult I always found it kind of strange. I did not realize just how strange it was until I dropped my son off at Pre-K a little late and walked in to a whole class of 4 year olds hands on hearts mumbling through the pledge. It was sooo eerie.
As a genX-er, I grew up having to say it through elementary and middle school. I quit participating in the mid ‘80s. We were forced to attend John Birch Society events in school hat would talk about how horrible Russia was and how they fed propaganda to the kids from an early age. Reagan would always talk about all the horrible things USSR would do with their childhood propaganda too. I realized right away that everything the school was doing was the same thing.
I got labeled as a bad kid. Not Christian enough and not obedient enough.
Holyshit, I’ve heard stories, but hearing your firsthand account sounds so dystopian.
Also Gen X (1971) and while I remember it in first grade (so this would have been around 1976-77) I don’t think it continued much past 1st grade. MAYBE 2nd. So I lucked out there I suppose. I cannot imagine getting indoctrinated by JBS though. I’m sure it would have gone down well in a lot of the midwest where I grew up, but I suppose I also lucked out there in that the school board and staff were pretty apolitical when it came to school structure.
The irony, to me, is that town is liberal now. The surrounding county is super maga but the city is all hippie liberal. But as a child, this Colorado town was Texas red. Don’t spend money on education because we need a better high school football stadium type of town.
We were forced to attend John Birch Society events in school
Damn, that sounds unconstitutional as hell. I imagine you went to some time of Christian private school?
Nope, public school
Pretty sure everyone did.
Went to Catholic school from 1976 through 1987. We did the pledge in the morning through … fifth grade? Maybe through eighth, but I don’t really remember. Definitely not in high school. In those early years, I wasn’t aware enough to know that I even could not want to recite it, let alone having the knowledge that I legally didn’t even have to recite it, or even stand up for it.
When my kids were going to public elementary, they did it, too. Very early on, one of my kids didn’t like to do it, but it was more about social anxiety than making a political statement. So even though I was well aware of the legal rights around the pledge in school, I did encourage that child to participate when they could, because taking part in a group activity like that was a healthier choice than not for them at that age.
We’ve since all had plenty of political/legal discussions, including around the pledge and its history, so they all make their own choices now, if the high school even has students recite it at all.
I went to elementary school in the late 60s and early 70s and yes, we said the pledge every day. I didn’t think anything about it back then.
As a Boy Scout in the mid 70s, we said the pledge at every meeting. Again, I gave it no thought.
In the 90s, I was in a Ham Radio club and they said it before every meeting. I found it odd, but went along with them.
In the last few years, I joined the local HOG (Harley Owners Group) chapter and they said it before every meeting. Now I’m beginning to question why, as an adult in a seemingly innocuous club, am I supposed to pledge my allegiance to the flag. This isn’t the military, there’s no reason for it.
If you’re wanting me to say the pledge to the flag, you’re just wanting me to show my patriotism and that word is about as vile to me now as a racial slur.
If I ever find myself in an organization that wants me to stand and recite the pledge, I’ll be walking out the door.
Yes, every day. I remember having to do it as early as kindergarten, but I don’t recall it being a thing after elementary school (I went to elementary school in the 80s.)
We did that in class, but only when I was a very little kid, like in elementary school in the 70s.
In retrospect, it’s creepy, but by the time I was old enough that I might have questioned it, we weren’t doing it anymore.
This Whitest Kids You Know video about it sums it up pretty well. (Although the dig at Ritalin at the end is kinda weird)
It used to be mandatory growing up but around 2006 that stopped. Where specifically were you situated if I may ask? I didn’t realize, but it sounds like phasing out compulsory participation was a regional thing
At some point in high school I stopped standing. I want to say my freshman year but I could be wrong. It was just on a whim one day, although I was a bit of a rebel at heart, I was not the type of student to get in trouble for anything.
Anyway, from the day I first decided to ignore the pledge, I was never reprimanded for it. Some teachers would stare daggers at me but I never received any punishment nor were my parents notified.
Good for you OP! I stopped standing to pledge around when I was maybe 10 or 11, when I learned it was illegal to make standing for it mandatory & about how the words ‘under God’ were added later and the pledge violated separation of church and state. I come from a very liberal area and all my teachers were quite proud of me I think, especially my 6th-grade teacher. But a lot of my classmates didn’t understand and I got bullied a lot for it. But I refused to do it. My mom was teaching public policy so…that probably influenced it a lot haha
I was never forced which is kind of notable since I’m from Alabama. I think my school was terrified of getting slapped with a lawsuit.
Non american here. I have a few questions.
- What exactly does it mean?
- What if you don’t agree with it, for example the “under of god” part.
- Does it have a legal status? For example can you be arrested for not pleging allegiance, or failing to have pledged at some point in your life?
- What about freedom of speech? How can one force you to express yourself? I feel like freedom of speech goes both ways : I’d like to have the same freedom of “not speech” as well.
- As school children, we swore this oath. It describes loyalty to the flag and (more importantly) the nation and ideals that the flag represents.
- As a child, I would just be silent during the ‘under god’ part. No one noticed. If they had, there isn’t really anything they could do about it.
- There have been lawsuits. Basically, you are not legally obligated to say it. There would be a lot of peer pressure to do so, because each of our school days would start with the whole class saying it.
- Again, it is controversial, but you are not technically forced to say it.
Here is a breakdown of what the pledge means:
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America”
I swear loyalty to the flag
“and to the Republic for which it stands,”
and to the government it represents
“one Nation under God,”
a country guided by the Lord!
“indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”
united, with freedom and justice for everyone**terms and conditions apply
I attended a school board meeting recently and they asked everyone stand and recite before the meeting would begin. I got so many dirty looks for refusing.
To watch a room full of adults look and pledge to a flag was comical and disturbing
- Compactor9679 ( @Compactor9679@lemm.ee ) 0•1 year ago
U can always go to a different country :)
average american’s reaction when someone doesnt want to be forced to worship a piece of cloth and a god they don’t believe in every morning, and get berated if they dont lmfao. home of the free, right?