Sofia Orr is likely to become the first woman since then to be jailed for refusing military service, but believes it is ‘wrong to take children and make them into soldiers’
And she’s right.
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I think you are on the right track with your ideals of the world, but I also guess you kinda know that this is not how states operate. Of course there are different types of states, but if you think of democracies, they are also not service providers to their citizens. On the contrary. Democratic states are the abstraction of all the private interests of their citizens. This is what they protect and advance. What arises out of that is that occasionally these interests will suggest a war is what the nation desires.
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yes, I also don‘t believe in the nation‘s interest, yet it somehow pretty brutally exists. Something‘s got to grow, somethings got to give.
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At first you got to have a good analysis of how society and the economy works. Unfortunately this already is a tricky thing, because not everybody agrees.
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I think the point they are trying to hint at is that it makes sense to try and understand the emergent forces that culminate in events as horrific as war.
You may “not believe in national interests” but something closely resembling that is a force governing social behavior.
So while it is important to pass moral judgements on these phenomena, you will be more effective at doing so if you can abstractly evaluate them absent moral judgement. Just as you couldn’t coherently understand an ecology if you cannot accept obligate predators as a concept because of the moral implications of predation.
We will all differ in our moral and strategic assessments, but we all cohabit the same world, in which we can all recognize common truths arising from nature.
Eh… Close, but they are also a concentration social power (and fundamentally deferred violence), and rights only really exist in the context of social power. You can try and establish your own personal sovereignty but you can be sure that any state that cares to will test that. Sometimes the most you can do is accept that it is able to imprison you or go down fighting, and if you are committed to pacifism the latter is a harder option.
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Concientious objectors are jailed in Israel. This isn’t anything new, see here for another case https://www.amnesty.org.uk/urgent-actions/conscientious-objector-detained-israel
Conscientious objectors are not jailed.
Anyone can just do community service roles instead of the military. Sounds like only people who completely refuse to help out at all are punished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherut_Leumi
Sherut Leumi (Hebrew: שירות לאומי, lit. ‘National Service’) is an alternative voluntary form of national service in Israel, as opposed to the mandatory military conscription prevalent in the country. It is designed for individuals who do not meet the eligibility criteria for service in the Israel Defense Forces, or who hold conscientious objections to military enlistment. The program primarily was created for religious Jewish girls aged 17 to 24, although it is open to all applicants who cite diverse grounds for their decision.
The majority work in schools, but can also work in places such as special education, administration, hospitals,[3] law, geriatrics, nursing homes, health clinics, teens at risk, internal security, disadvantaged communities, immigrant assistance, and many other organizations. Acceptance is based on an interview via a placement organizations that try to find the youth appropriate skills, interests, and needs.
Although the Israeli army’s Conscience Committee can decide to allow exemption from military service, this is usually granted only to those conscientious objectors who refuse to serve on religious grounds. However, according to the UN Human Rights Committee, no discrimination is permitted “among conscientious objectors on the basis of the nature of their particular beliefs” - i.e. whether they are religious or otherwise. Even though Israeli law does allow for exemption on grounds of pacifism, the army’s Conscience Committee frequently rejects pacifists’ cases. The authorities deny objectors the possibility of performing alternative civilian service. Conscientious objectors in Israel can be convicted of and imprisoned for the same “offence” repeatedly. In 2003, the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention said that this practice flouts the rights of conscientious objectors under international human rights standards which prohibit “double jeopardy”.
Your point was already refuted in the article from amnesty I linked.
Hasn’t it always been young people who make the bulk of the armies?
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Well, she’s certainly part of a minority. The majority of the political parties in Israel are extremely right-wing, not much choice there.
I’d be happier probably dying for a cause I hate fir a couple of years rather than rotting in a military prison for the rest of eternity.
Yeah and killing other people? Sure thing buddy.
