…from people who seem to refuse to install paredit or coloring plugins for either? ps lisp syntax ftw, it’s a feature!
No, YAML can fuck right off. I hate that this shit format is used for cloud stuff.
YAML is the Excel of data formats due to the Norway Problem
OK, that’s excessively “convenient” for booleans. But I don’t get the passionate YAML hate, seems like a simple enough language for config. Didn’t have the pleasure (“pleasure”?) to work with it though, so what’s why else is it shitty?
A property can have the wrong indentation and it would still be a syntactically correct yaml. It’s hard to distinguish whether a line is wrongly indented or not. Copy and paste a line and mistakenly use the wrong indentation, and the entire production breaks.
In json it’s much harder to do similar mistakes.
It’s hard to distinguish whether a line is wrongly indented or not.
That’s very much not my experience. I use YAML regularly and while I’ve had copy paste indentation errors when I look at the offending line it’s always obvious to me how to fix the indentation. The only indentation thing that’s ever given me trouble is embedding YAML as a string within a file that uses tabs.
White space in the wrong place? Fails Wrong amount of tabs? Fail
Working in a big configuration file that has a lot of nesting? Good luck.
Best part is that most of these things don’t throw errors or anything, it just doesn’t work and you are left scratching your head as to why your deploy only fails in the production environment.
since yaml is just a superset of json, you can easily avoid all problems like this
yaml is like a less strict json for me
Since it’s a superset of JSON, couldn’t you just use the JSON notation if you hate the semantic whitespace?
I hate YAML so much
I love python: Fight me IRL.fine i will take the bait: thats 5 spaces
Go home OP, you’re drunk.
And give us your keys, you’ve had too much minimalism to drive.
So I’m going to say what I always say when people complain about semantic whitespace: Your code should be properly indented anyway. If it’s not, it’s a bad code.
I’m not saying semantic whitespace is superior to brackets or parentheses. It’s clearly not. But it’s not terrible either.
As someone who codes in Python pretty much everyday for years, I NEVER see indentation errors. I didn’t see them back when I started either. Code without indentation is impossible to read for me anyway so it makes zero difference whether the whitespace has semantic meaning or not. It will be there either way.
Python decided to use a single convention (semantic whitespace) instead of two separate ones for machine decodeable scoping and manual/visual scoping. That’s part of Python’s design principle. The program should behave exactly like what people expect it to (without strenuous reasoning exercises).
But some people treat it as the original sin. Not surprised though. I’ve seen developers and engineers nurture weird irrational hatred towards all sorts of conventions. It’s like a phobia.
Similar views about yaml. It may not be the most elegant - it had to be the superset of JSON, after all. But Yaml is a semi-configuration language while JSON is a pure serialization language. Try writing a kubernetes manifest or a compose file in pure JSON without whitespace alignment or comments (which pure JSON doesn’t support anyway). Let’s see how pleasant you find it.
The number of times I move code around and can just press a hotkey to fix indentation though. Not possible with Python.
Yeah, that’s definitely a good point. But it’s a minor thing. Adjusting indentation takes 2 keystrokes in vim, I barely notice it.
Most IDEs support automatic code formatting, and doing so on save. Or have it as a github hook.
Of course, but when indentation has a syntactic meaning the formatter often won’t be able to fix it.
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This sums up how I feel nicely. No issues with parens…but whitespace…fuck that shit
Everyone that prefers whitespaces over parentheses is an animal.
Meow.
Yep! Most of us are even homo sapiens!
People who prefer significant white space over bracket & brace blocks and semicolons are animals
People are animals.
you’ll pry my END command from my cold, dead hands…
It’s fascinating how s-expressions are both data type and language syntax. Such power. Only other time I saw something remotely like this was XSLT & XML, which I admittedly do not miss one bit.
This post made me go try something in clojure again and man I forgot just how fucking good the language is. Everything fits together so nicely.
Python has one of the worst syntaxes out there
a = [ Haskell , is , the , GOAT ]But s-expressions give you power that other syntax doesn’t. Data and code as one. Besides there is no other syntax than simply that so it becomes much easier to remember random extra things.
Whitespace on the other hand, I hate with fiber of my being.
Yes definitely. However Rust manages to become extensible and capable of constructing powerful DSLs out of it’s macros without using S-expressions. But I still find them prettier than Rust’s syntax.
apples and oranges is why
