- theshatterstone54 ( @theshatterstone54@feddit.uk ) 35•3 months ago
North Korea: 316 downloads
Interesting…
In all seriousness, in both my home country and the country I live in, the number of downloads surpasses the population numbers which is kinda insane.
- lemmyvore ( @lemmyvore@feddit.nl ) English31•3 months ago
I think they count every download of every package, every version, every time. It’s not the number of unique users or even packages.
If you install 3 apps you might need to download 3 versions of graphics driver, 3 versions of desktop environment libraries and so on, It won’t count as one user installing 3 apps, it will show up as 10 -20 downloads. And that’s just the initial install, every time you update them it counts another 10-20.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English7•3 months ago
It is per download not per person.
- lemmynparty ( @lemmynparty@lemmings.world ) 32•3 months ago
Lol, what a pointless map.
It’s impossible to tell at a glance which countries have more or less downloads, other than a couple of countries with a slightly lighter colour.- jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 9•3 months ago
Yeah, they could have applied a logarithm or something.
- Fonzie! ( @lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ) 9•3 months ago
And included a legend, such as a colour bar
- jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 27•3 months ago
I’d prefer to see downloads per country per capita.
- luciferofastora ( @luciferofastora@lemmy.zip ) 23•3 months ago
Right? “Oh look, country with huge population has more downloads than country with small population!”
- eveninghere ( @eveninghere@beehaw.org ) 25•3 months ago
As a professor I have to say… the site admin skipped the class that taught them to include always the color bar.
- biribiri11 ( @biribiri11@lemmy.ml ) 24•3 months ago
To everyone saying you can’t mirror a flatpak repo… you’re absolutely right. There should be a far easier way to set up your own mirror without needing to build everything from scratch. That being said, if you wanted to try to make your own repo with every one of flathub’s apps, here you go:
https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/hosting-a-repository.html
Edit: Some did get a flathub mirror working. The issue is that a. Fastly works good enough and b. There is no concept of “packages” on the server side. It’s just one big addressed content store because of ostree, and syncing is apparently difficult? Idk, not being able to sync the state of content is like the entire point of ostree…
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English2•3 months ago
Honestly I would prefer to just donate
- biribiri11 ( @biribiri11@lemmy.ml ) 11•3 months ago
It’s not about funding. Many prefer mirrors because the main instance isn’t globally available (the GitHub issue I linked, for example, is all about people trying and failing to access flathub in China) or because they can’t for compliance reasons (many businesses already mirror stuff like epel, too, which is what throws off Rocky’s stat counters). Neither of those issues can be assessed by throwing more money at a CDN.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•3 months ago
Well that isn’t the fault of Flathub. If a country or organization blocks it that’s a local issue. This is especially true in China where they need to control the movement of information. Blaming flathub and Flatpak for censorship is frankly unfair.
Just to be clear I do not support Chinese Authoritarianism
- biribiri11 ( @biribiri11@lemmy.ml ) 9•3 months ago
I’m not sure if anyone said it was the fault of flathub. My point is that, regardless of fault, accessibility to the main instance is an issue for several reasons, and a good way to solve it is to build a system for mirrors.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•3 months ago
Your bypassing restrictions that could get you in trouble. Tor is the right answer in that case. However, bypassing restrictions can have dire consequences.
- biribiri11 ( @biribiri11@lemmy.ml ) 6•3 months ago
There are existing mirrors for Fedora and Ubuntu packages in China, which are used because mirrors in other countries are often blocked. I’m sure there are no legality issues—the issue in the case of flatpak and china in particular is that China blocks Fastly because Fastly does not host any POPs in China. This is why Cloudflare, for example, has their own network in China that international users can pay to use. There’s no legal issues here, just logistical. Besides, as previously shown, people do (with great difficulty) managed to bring up their own flatpak mirror without any consequences for a few years now.
Besides, there shouldn’t be legality issues for businesses wanting to host their own mirrors for compliance issues.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•3 months ago
I just think Flathub shouldn’t get involved with Chinese attacks on human rights. The Chinese version of things lack proper encryption and are heavily censored. You can’t use things like normal Wikipedia or Ticktok.
China isolates there own people. You can’t blame Flathub for attacks on freedom. As for mirrors your welcome to create your own repo based on Flathub. However, it is never going to be officially enforced. Flathub is very careful with user safety.
- Fonzie! ( @lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ) 23•3 months ago
Oh wow, a lot of people use it in countries with a lot of people!
- Malgas ( @Malgas@beehaw.org ) English18•3 months ago
- Fonzie! ( @lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ) 1•3 months ago
@Gigachad already mentioned it
- Jolteon ( @Jolteon@lemmy.zip ) 2•3 months ago
looks at India and China
I’m not seeing it.
- JRaccoon ( @JRaccoon@discuss.tchncs.de ) English17•3 months ago
Sorry to ask, I’m not really familiar with Linux desktop nowadays: I’ve seen Flatpak and Flathub talked about a lot lately and it seems to be kinda a controversial topic. Anyone wanna fill me in what’s all the noice about? It’s some kind of cross-distro “app store” thingy?
- Lettuce eat lettuce ( @Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml ) 47•3 months ago
Flatpak is a universal application packaging standard for Linux. It allows devs to create a single application that gets bundled with all necessary dependencies including versioning.
These apps run in their own semi-isolated “container” which makes immutable distros possible. (Distros like Fedora Silverblue that are effectively impossible to break by installing or removing critical system files.)
This means that a Linux app doesn’t have to have a .deb version, an .rpm version, or be pre-compiled for any other distros. A user can simply go to Flathub, (the main repository for Flatpak apps), download the flatpak, and install it on their distro of choice.
It’s quickly becoming the most popular way for users to install apps on Linux because it’s so easy and quick. But there are a few downsides like size on disk, first party verification, per-distro optimizations, and the centralization of application sources. That’s why some users aren’t fully endorsing or embracing how popular they are becoming.
- JRaccoon ( @JRaccoon@discuss.tchncs.de ) English10•3 months ago
Cool, thanks for the explanation.
a single application that gets bundled with all necessary dependencies including versioning
Does that mean that if I were to install Application A and Application B that both have dependency to package C version 1.2.3 I then would have package C (and all of its possible sub dependencies) twice on my disk? I don’t know how much external dependencies applications on Linux usually have but doesn’t that have the potential to waste huge amounts of disk space?
- Lettuce eat lettuce ( @Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml ) 21•3 months ago
Essentially yes, if you start using lots if older applications or mixing applications that use many different dependency versions, you will start to use lots of extra disk space because the different apps have to use their own separate dependency trees and so forth.
This doesn’t mean it will be like 2x-3x the size as traditional packages, but from what I’ve seen, it could definitely be 10-20% larger on disk. Not a huge deal for most people, but if you have limited disk space for one reason or another, it could be a problem.
- brachypelmasmithi ( @brachypelmasmithi@lemm.ee ) 4•3 months ago
It CAN get pretty wild sometimes, though. For example, Flameshot (screenshotting utility) is only ~560KB as a system package, while its flatpak version is ~1.4GB (almost 2.5k times as big)
- j0rge ( @j0rge@lemmy.ml ) 5•3 months ago
Flameshot is 3.6MB on disk according to
flatpak info org.flameshot.Flameshot
- brachypelmasmithi ( @brachypelmasmithi@lemm.ee ) 3•3 months ago
Weird, the software manager (using LM 21.3) reports 1.1GB dl, 2.4GB installed (which is different from when i checked yesterday for some reason?).
flatpak install
reports around 2.1GB of dependencies and the package itself at just 1.3MBEDIT: nvm im stupid, the other reply explains the discrepancy
- Vilian ( @Vilian@lemmy.ca ) 4•3 months ago
no, that number don’t reflect the shared runtimes and deduplication
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English4•3 months ago
Flatpak as a dependency system that allows use of specially packaged library type flatpaks. This significantly reduces the needed disk space.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English11•3 months ago
Was controversial when it was new and full of problems. Now it is mostly the standard for apps.
- JRaccoon ( @JRaccoon@discuss.tchncs.de ) English2•3 months ago
Well, just by looking at responses in this thread, the controversy most definitely still exists. Some seem to like it and others hate it fiercely.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English3•3 months ago
I think the haters are louder than the people who just use it occasionally
- shapis ( @shapis@lemmy.ml ) 3•3 months ago
Most of the issue is that they’re unreliable. Sometimes the app will work. Sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes you have to fiddle blindly with flatseal settings, which ones? Who knows? Guessing is part of the fun.
It’d be a great thing if it just worked.
- shekau ( @shekau@lemmy.today ) 2•3 months ago
Flatpak is the best - thats all you need to know!!!
But seriously, apart from obvious things other people have said, I would like to add that the HUGE advantage of flatpak is that each app is using its own dependencies, this way you can avoid dependency hell, which is mostly time-consuming and hard to fix.
- prunerye ( @prunerye@slrpnk.net ) 2•3 months ago
I don’t hate flatpaks, but flatpaks require more disk space than the same apps from traditional repositories, and they only support a handful of the most common default themes. Since I only ever use older and slower computers, my disk space is limited, and I like to rice my desktop, I personally avoid them. But your use-case may differ.
- Vilian ( @Vilian@lemmy.ca ) 2•3 months ago
yes it’s cross distro, it’s controversial becaune some people don’t want to install apps with their own libraries or dependecies, and some apps are not oficial so they break with the flatpak sandbox
- boredsquirrel ( @boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net ) 10•3 months ago
Crazy, how our “free world” is centralized
- thingsiplay ( @thingsiplay@beehaw.org ) 20•3 months ago
Flathub is not the entirety of Free World, just a little small slice of the pie. You can say Flathub is quite centralized. But our Free World have so much more. Every country will have a certain focus of what is freely available. It’s an optional server and package format. You are free to install it or use another free package. Nothing crazy here.
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English6•3 months ago
Funny how it isn’t popular in countries with population several times larger than the USA. I guess every outside of the US can see through the bullshit of corporate-hijacked open-source.
- thingsiplay ( @thingsiplay@beehaw.org ) 29•3 months ago
the bullshit of corporate-hijacked open-source.
???
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English2•3 months ago
I’ve written about this here already.
- LainTrain ( @LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 22•3 months ago
Do you maybe mean snap?
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English3•3 months ago
Snaps are a default no, obviously. Most of the points by Flatkill still hold true to this day. Apart from that, I have my own set of disagreements which I’ll not be talking about - basically, stuff like reproducibility, storage space, inconsistent permissions, inconvenient configurations, outdated runtime - well, you get the point, so I’ll not be expanding on that.
My primary disillusionment towards Flatpak has to do with how people with shared backgrounds and vested corporate interests have taken over open-source - in this particular case, I am talking about Big Tech. It’s almost as if the space for a community-developed organization is hijacked by them - by them occupying core positions of the organization.
These organizations do not follow a horizontal approach to decision-making, they often come up with decisions without consulting folks that aren’t within their direct circle, and worst, when they’re held in a tight-spot, they can evade any criticism by appealing to authority - that they’re the maintainers/contributors, and they know what’s best for the project’s future.
The same is true about funding - it is always through members of the company that they’re indirectly funding these projects, that I can’t help but feel that the “community”, aka the outsiders never had the chance to be a part of the decision-making.
Flatpak may have it’s share of poor features that can be fixed - sand-boxing can be improved by using permissive containers that allow particular shell variables, installation will throw dialogue, informing the users beforehand about the permissions these apps will need, developers may be forced to use proper run-times, and perhaps, some of the runtime be eliminated to use system dependencies, thereby complying with storage compliance - I don’t know, but it could be fixed. But this invisible, unspoken flaw in the governance? No way.
- jbk ( @jbk@discuss.tchncs.de ) 4•3 months ago
You’re complaining about corporate fundings. Without them, a lot of open source tech would definitely not be as advanced as it is today. Since everything’s open source, anyone can just fork a project when some “malicious megacorp” “hijacks” the project. Funny how a similar case happened “the good way” recently with Redis/Valkey, but the other way around.
There’s always some doomers only seeing potential bad futures in awesome stuff, huh?
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English2•3 months ago
Oh sorry, I should’ve mentioned why I hate RedHat. Well, I used to like it. Like is an understatement, I used to love them. Because I was one of those college grads who wanted to take part in RedHat’s Tev-Aviv program for the open-source AI and software stuff. I was so thankful and enthusiastic about contributing to Linux. And even though I was not selected, I would embrace their products, and related OSS projects - I ditched Ubuntu, and stayed with Fedora for almost four years, before I had a change of heart last September.
How US Big Tech supports Israel’s AI-powered genocide and apartheid
IBM’s Role in the Holocaust – What the New Documents Reveal
Genocide profiteer IBM wins big on EU funding
A Marriage Made in Hell: An Introduction to Microsoft’s Complicity in Apartheid and Genocide
I didn’t want to go on a political rant, but here we are. The world ain’t single-dimensional, chief. It is the culmination of every factor that makes me hate Fedora, Flatpak, systemd - am I forgetting something else? I hope not. Not every opposition to corporate support of open-source is some unhinged boomer rant about the good ol’ days of X11 and POSIX-compliant shell - well, I’m a Gen-Z kid, to begin with. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the advancement of open-source, if the cost is supporting another corporation responsible for the Holocaust, Nakba and Apartheid. Those injustices and deaths were avoidable. As someone from a former colony, I can not, and will not tolerate enabler of these atrocities.
- jbk ( @jbk@discuss.tchncs.de ) 2•3 months ago
Well you do you. I don’t see the point in hating open source software made by them, you’re not paying them unlike with regular products and boycotting them.
- jbk ( @jbk@discuss.tchncs.de ) 6•3 months ago
average lemmy.ml mf
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English2•3 months ago
And your point being?
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English4•3 months ago
It could also he that those people aren’t using computers with Linux
- LalSalaamComrade ( @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml ) English2•3 months ago
With the largest group of people graduating with an engineering degree, you’re telling me they don’t use Linux? Just check the stats at NSF for the number of degrees awarded in S&E.
India alone has 14% in the desktop market share for Linux. China’s market share is not easy to tell, thanks to the firewall, but 90% of government computers use Kylin and other Chinese-developed distros.
- umbrella ( @umbrella@lemmy.ml ) 4•3 months ago
i hope it does 20 billion
- Chloë (she/her) ( @MicrondeMMMMMMM@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 4•3 months ago
FOSS keeps winning it’s Insane!
- fireshell ( @fireshell@lemmy.ml ) English3•3 months ago
It is noteworthy that builds of Chrome, VLC, Dolphin, Steam and Spotify are created by third-party enthusiasts not associated with the main projects.
What great news, that’s why there is no trust in Flathub.
- nexussapphire ( @nexussapphire@lemm.ee ) English3•3 months ago
Why don’t you open an feature request on their git if you have an issue with volunteer work.
It’s funny thinking this guy uses a distro package manager potentially with unofficial patches applied to the package.
- kylian0087 ( @kylian0087@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 2•3 months ago
I mean it is still miles ahead of snaps and the snap store
- starman ( @starman@programming.dev ) English3•3 months ago
Still not as good as native package
- LemmyHead ( @LemmyHead@lemmy.ml ) 4•3 months ago
Good is relative tbf. I’ve had issues installing something natively while installing flatpak just worked
- Chloë (she/her) ( @MicrondeMMMMMMM@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 2•3 months ago
Sure yeah but its what we have. I’m personally rooting for nixpkgs but they might be too complicated to setup for the average Joe.
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 3•3 months ago
Great opportunity to inject malware to so many vulnerable peeps then
- Fonzie! ( @lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ) 5•3 months ago
You could say that with any program distribution. At least flatpaks are containerised.
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 2•3 months ago
Nah. Most distro package managers verify their packages authenticity with cryptography since the early noughts
- istanbullu ( @istanbullu@lemmy.ml ) 2•3 months ago
nice