I’ve run a small business for over 10 yeas. I use linux. I’m grateful to the community and I use FOSS where possible.
I have had some issues over the years, but have always been able to get around them (except CAD in 2013), but recently I’ve had issues with my government (UK). First they introduced ‘making tax digital’ and told me for years that I would have to buy windows only software (there was no legal option on linux until a few weeks before the deadline (https://www.comsci.co.uk/100PcVatFreeBridge saved the day). The UK Government didn’t create a free solution or any route to that as they don’t want the source to be open for making tax digital so accounting software companies have made a killing!
This week my internet banking stopped allowing payments, it no longer works in firefox (I’m guessing). On the telephone they asked me ‘what search engine I was using’+ and advised to use google.
What is the best UK business bank to use if you use linux to run a small business? Do I have to use Chrom(e)ium? Does anyone else use linux for business admin? Is anyone (Freesoftware foundation, etc) thinking about the creeping legislative changes that make it literally illegal to use FOSS and linux?
I wanna be an ally, but its so tiring.
+ browser ≠ search engine. Yes, I’m pedantic, at least I didn’t confuse them by saying ‘quant’ or ‘duck duck go’, OK!?
Hmm I didn’t know the UK was THIS bad.
I don’t know if the UK is worse than anywhere else (?)
I’m in Canada and use Linux full-time without any such problems whatsoever. On rare occasions I use Edge instead of Firefox, and that’s it.
Well it surely is much much worse than my country by the looks of it.
Which is?
In Sweden most government provided services are accessible through a web browser, but you need “BankID” which requires Android. Which is kind of Linux, though not fully FOSS.
But I’m sure the fact Android is FOSS had nothing to do with it, it’s just a random coincidence. It would simply be the most popular OS.
Bad? It’s a couple of decisions made by organisations or politicians who are ignorant of free software alternatives and open standards.
Certainly better than the US’s tax system, where you have to pay to file your taxes or at the least, have to spend a lot of your time working out complex tax submissions each year.
In the UK, your income tax is automatically paid by your employer when you earn it. Unless you’re self employed - or doing your own business accounts like OP, you don’t have to submit any tax information, ever.
Taxes are not the only things that matter, mister/miss. In the US you at least aren’t legally forced to use Windows and I’m not even talking about the fact that the US supports genocide. But who am I talking to? Americans are fully dead inside and won’t understand. There’s no way to revive them.
I’m not in the US - and who was talking about genocide? We’re talking about tax and it’s software here.
The original topic wasn’t about tax either.
All these third world countries can’t compete with the powerhouse that is Brazil and its free, multiplataform tax system since the nineties.
Seriously though, it’s not a technological issue, it’s a political one.
Governments should not require the use of proprietary software. I personally would refuse to use it. I don’t live in the UK but in the US I think you could easily make the case.
refuse.
That’s just not practically possible.
OP said they’re running a small business. It’s great that they want to fly the flag for FOSS, but they’re not in the business of promoting and advocating for FOSS. They still need to do the things they need to do.
Refusing to file your taxes on the grounds that the software provided is not open source is a great way to no longer be in business.
Have u tried changing user agent? Get an add-on on Firefox with a similar name and change to chrome. The website will now think that u’r using Chrome. U could even change ur displayed OS if it has that big of a problem with Linux.
Firefox also has a built-in list of user agent overrides for websites that don’t work on Firefox for no reason.
You can create an issue here, and maybe they’ll fix it at some point. Not sure what the normal turnaround is for fixes like this though, could take a while.
You can see the list in
about:compatbtwThanks - I had not thought of this. I’ll give it a go… [edit: no dice :(] It works in chromium, so there is a solution… its just tiring to remember which browser to use for which site.
If you do find their site works on a other browser (and I mean, the browser, not due to an addon, etc.) then complain to the company / bank / etc.
If they take your complaint seriously then I’d persevere with them… if they don’t then they’re not customer focused and your business (money) goes elsewhere.
if they don’t then they’re not customer focused and your business (money) goes elsewhere.
Yeah, let’s NOT pay taxes!
/sUnless you’re talking about the bank, in that case they’re literally here asking for a good alternative bank.
I gave up and used a Windows VM for such shenanigans. It’s hard when even the government doesn’t want to listen. This is a good project which bridges the gap -> https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps.
First time hearing this. Is WinApps stable? Does it consume too much resources?
I found for sites that I have to run in Chromium I use Tools -=> Create Shortcut, then Run in Windowed Mode. This puts a shortcut in your app list for the site, and runs it without menus like a web app. It helps me since my brain treats it like the company’s application vs site.
I’m also based in the UK. I don’t run a business but have occasionally encountered problems trying to use Librewolf on the web, especially with Noscript on.
I tried to use Qubes to separate my activities into VMs but I found it difficult. So I did my own, less extreme, approach using KVM.
I created a virtual machine which only has Chrome on it. This is what I use for accessing my bank, Paypal and doing online shopping.
I have a second machine I use for Whatsapp and email and finally a third with Librewolf for general web browsing.
Each uses the same VPN service but different servers.
I only use Freetube and Retroarch on my main machine.
This is on a very beefy Thinkpad I essentially use as a desktop in my office. I use a smaller machine downstairs with VNC on it as a remote when I’m sat on my sofa.
This sounds smart
Tangential:
I‘m running my own IT company since recently and am transitioning to exclusively using FOSS. I still have some things I need to work around like my iOS phone. It already has a linux successor but its not finished yet. Pretty promising though. My plan is to put a fixed percentage of profits to open source projects.
This is not tangental - I am heartened, my hope is that this would become normal. Despite my moan, it isn’t that bad and I’m sure I would have had different IT headaches on windows - security comes to mind.
I still use proprietary android software on my phone, but I try not to do anything secure on my phone (this is also getting harder as banks are insisting that I convert to apps)
Thanks! I‘m currently working with a customer who uses microsoft cloud stuff and windows. Honestly, I would have been done with my work after 20 minutes if he were on linux. Instead I‘m at 8 hrs and a full blown storage solution just because his hardware is incompatible with each other die to windows/microsoft BS.
I can not stress this enough: there are lots of issues on windows which require costly support while the issues on linux usually require a search engine or a friend with some linux experience.
The downside of postmarketOS at this point is the camera functionality. We need to get that working and we‘re golden. On the oneplus 6 I‘m working, its the only major thing that doesnt work. Otherwise the phone is pretty ready.
What is the Linux successor?
Its a oneplus 6 with postmarketOS.
Sweet
Oh I have another question. How do you deal with those elevated Java apps on the sim? If you’re privacy focused I mean.
Sorry, no idea what you mean. I use the phone the same way I use my computer. I’m sticking to stuff that would probably pop up if it were to get compromised, otherwise I dont bother.
Ah I mean when you buy for example an Intel CPU it has IME enabled. Some vendors turn this off for you, because doing it at home can brick it. For phones you have some kind of micro Java running on the sim chip and it has full system access and can be patched remotely. I haven’t looked into a real solution yet, but you can also use a solution where the sim is connected via USB. Or don’t use one. There might be other hardware vulnerabilities, but that’s one I know of.
Yeah, thats not what I‘m going for. I know about ime and that some disable it which makes sense imo. But I have to look for business opportunities so I dont focus on hackers with a freedom knack. I go for small businesses that can be swayed for healthier decisions, making them money and preserving an isle of control around them.
I‘m talking nextcloud instead of m365, open source crms and erps, on premise solutions. I am very low level compared to other IT firms but going that deep will destroy my momentum.
Ya you definitely have to pick your battles! I just use plain Samsung android with a sim and am aware of the vulnerabilities it creates. I see it as a low security device, so it can’t just access everything willy nilly. I also work with XR and I am not sure if all the stuff works properly if I’d pick a different solution. I think it’s best to remain practical and keep moving, but to invest a bit of time over the years, which has good results for me.
If you use Mettle, the phone based bank, you get FreeAgent for free. FreeAgent is a really good web based accounting package that works in Firefox. They gave a useful accompanying API and can do payroll, VAT, end of year and director self assessment. It’s great.
I think the key part here is that it’s a guess on your part whether using Firefox is the cause. Do you get any specific error when using the website? Or does something just “not work”, such as you click a button and it does nothing?
Also, I’ve run into stuff like this before, and my best bet has been to be flexible about using other browsers to work around issues. I would suggest testing the banking website with Chromium (or even Chrome). If it works, file a bug with Mozilla (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/file-bug-report-or-feature-request-mozilla) and just use Chromium/Chrome for only that website until the bug is fixed.
This will allow you to still do business, while still participating in open source via a helpful bug report that could end up benefitting others as well.
It works on chromium, not firefox. I guess I should be more flexible. It is likely that the bug is in the bank’s site, so I wasn’t sure about putting in a bug report. The website pauses on the ‘loading’ animated icon, when you try to navigate away, it tells you ‘Your session has expired’. It hasn’t been fixed by changing the user-agent (assuming I got it right). I don’t know if the bank would give them a dummy account for testing, but I’ll file a report anyway.
If it works on chromium I’d consider that even if it is a quirk on the bank website, chromium is handling it cleanly and allowing you to use the site. That’s something we probably want incorporated in Firefox. I’d encourage submitting the bug report to Mozilla, and don’t assume too much about what they can/cannot do!
Also, please feel free to answer if you aren’t based in the UK, I assume this isn’t a UK only problem, but I’m based here.
I’ve had zero trouble with online banking. The only hiccups i may find is that some banking (android) apps may refuse to work unless you installed them via Play Store.
Maybe you can use some German bank. They allow one to interact with their API for free. I use GNU cash for it. Though I doubt that you can file your taxes via GNU cash and be aligned with current UK law. You would need to check it for your own.
Is the free API part actually true for Sparkasse? I was not able to find an API solution for them. I did find something, but beyond a certain step, there wasn’t an actual API.
https://www.aquamaniac.de/rdm/
Gives you an adapter and an standalone tool. All banks should use the same API, apparently.
I’ll take a look, thank you
Should be everywhere. I’ve only tried it with DKB.
https://www.bundesbank.de/en/tasks/payment-systems/psd2/psd2-775954
So you can actually get transaction information of your own account via an API via psd2?
Yes. I tried it once with Gnu cash and my dkb account, got 12 months of transactions or so.
The UK Government didn’t create a free solution
You mean you must use their software to do taxes or what?
Back in my neck of the woods you either do them on paper (almost no one) or you submit online… They have well-defined APIs and you can use whatever you want (the IRS submission does use some java crap underneath but it’s fluid and you can save your progress in an XML file).
Although for most people it’s just a matter of logging in, checking that everything is in order, and clicking submit.
Always use a separate Firefox profile for banking needs.
Or Firefox Containers?
Firefox Containers are for Cookies and Storage separation. Profile, on the other hand, is a COMPLETE separation in all aspects of Firefox’s user data, setup , add-ons.
I am not in the UK, but wound up biting the bullet and using QubesOS for my business machine. It’s kind of like a more straightforward to use everyday set of VMs. I have the windows qube there for running CAD/CAM and the sadly sometimes necessary Chrome install. I know this isn’t an ideal solution, but it is the best that I personally have been able to come up with without going through the headache of dual booting, especially when dealing with either govt stuff, need Chrome for crappy websites my clients sometimes force me to use, or actually needing proprietary software that I have licensed for my business (MasterCam in my case).
I’ve found HSBC to be ok using Firefox on Linux. I don’t know if they have integrations with any accounting software, but the web access works well, and you can export your transactions for processing locally.
ETA: I’ve run small business accounting on Gnucash, I found the learning curve a bit steep, but once you ‘get it’ it’s handy.
This is interesting, and meets my needs. I tried Gnucash, but the double entry bookkeeping was a bit to advanced for my small-business’/smooth-brain needs (amortising my stock of utility bills seemed a bit excessive! - though I am sure I was doing it wrong)
The best bank is monero
Ah yes, the currency that’s pretty much only accepted for buying drugs or anything illegal.
You can’t prove or disprove this statement and that’s the whole point of monero.
The whole point of what I’m saying is that nowhere accepts it and it’s therefore functionality useless for running a business, the point of this post/discussion.
I can easily prove that most retailers don’t accept Monero and it’s therefore basically useless.
It’s a pain in the arse to even buy in the UK, I know because I use it to buy drugs.
I mean yes it’s not the same as paying with PayPal or any other “normal” payment processer but acceptance got a lot better over the last few years you can order basically all the online shit through proxy stores or exchange them through gift cards or by games directly with it.
Also monerica. Include gift cards and almost all major retailers in the US and EU accept monero
Actually, the last time cryptocurrencies were mentioned in a thread i was reading here on lemmy someone pointed out that, due to government regulation changes, using cryptocurrencies on the dark web was the only way some people could get the drugs they needed.
Drugs are an affordable replacement for food and shelter.
Wrong. Drugs are too expensive.
That’s because you haven’t been using monero :p
Lol wut? I buy my groceries, hotel, plane tickets, and electronics with monero.
Its great for privacy.
Crypto is scam.
Yes, treating crypto as a way to invest is a scam. The vast majority of crypto and crypto-adjacent “projects” are scams.
We live in a world where payment providers have the power to force Etsy to delist vendors that sell sex toys to customers of a legal age, payment apps like Venmo or PayPal will permaban your account for selling NSFW art or products, and physical cash is being largely abandoned for cards and digital wallets. Surely you can see the benefits of a completely anonymous payment method?
To be clear, I vastly prefer cash, but there’s an obvious issue with trying to anonymously use cash to pay for something on the internet or to send money to someone who isn’t within easy driving distance.
I think what you can do is just get a separate computer running Windows for all your business stuff and business stuff only. I’d also recommend ALWAYS using a VPN on it if legally possible.
I went a step further and am paying an accountant to handle this mess, using my favourite libre email client to contact her. I know, it’s a privileged position.
Well, depending on the size of the business, that may be a necessity or even a requirement.