•  theluddite   ( @theluddite@lemmy.ml ) 
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    4 months ago

    Investment giant Goldman Sachs published a research paper

    Goldman Sachs researchers also say that

    It’s not a research paper; it’s a report. They’re not researchers; they’re analysts at a bank. This may seem like a nit-pick, but journalists need to (re-)learn to carefully distinguish between the thing that scientists do and corporate R&D, even though we sometimes use the word “research” for both. The AI hype in particular has been absolutely terrible for this. Companies have learned that putting out AI “research” that’s just them poking at their own product but dressed up in a science-lookin’ paper leads to an avalanche of free press from lazy credulous morons gorging themselves on the hype. I’ve written about this problem a lot. For example, in this post, which is about how Google wrote a so-called paper about how their LLM does compared to doctors, only for the press to uncritically repeat (and embellish on) the results all over the internet. Had anyone in the press actually fucking bothered to read the paper critically, they would’ve noticed that it’s actually junk science.

    • At my previous job their was a role where you just called insurance companies and asked them incredibly basic questions about what they planned to do for a patient with diagnosis X and plan Y. This information should be searchable in a document with a single correct answer, but insurance companies are too scummy for that to be reliable.

      In 2021 we started using a robot that sounded like a human to call instead. It could handle the ~80%+ of calls that don’t use any critical thinking. At a guess, that’s maybe 5-10% of our division’s workforce that wasn’t needed anymore.

      With the amount of jobs like this that are 100% bullshit, I’m sure there are plenty of other cases where businesses can save money by buying an automated bullshit generator, instead of hiring a breathing bullshit generator.

      • The problem is that 20% failure rate has no validation and you are 100% liable for the failures of an AI you’re using as a customer support agent, which can end up costing you a ton and killing your reputation. The unfixable problem is that an AI solution takes a ton of effort to validate, way more than just double checking a human answer.

        • It’s not a 20% failure rate when the chatbot routes calls to a human agent whenever it’s more than x% unsure about what to say.

          AI solutions still get the 80% “bottom of the barrel” menial tasks perfectly well.

          • It wont know it doesn’t know. At the current state of AI, it doesn’t seem to have almost any sense of what is right and wrong or a way to validate that - even when you tell it, it is wrong. Maybe there are systems that can but I am not aware of them.

            •  jarfil   ( @jarfil@beehaw.org ) 
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              4 months ago

              The current state of AI chatbots, assigns a “confidence level” to every piece of output. It signals perfectly well when and where they should look for more information… but humans have been pushing them to “output something, anything”, instead of excusing itself for not knowing something, or running some additional processes in order to look for the missing information.

              As of this year, Copilot has been running web searches to complement its lack of information, and Gemini is running both web searches, and iteratively self-checking its own answer in order to refine it (see “drafts”). It also seems like Gemini might be learning from humanity’s reactions to its wrong answers.

                • LLMs generate output one token at a time. Each token comes with a confidence level by the model, about whether it’s the only possible token to continue the sequence. A model is only 100% confident in its output, if it reproduces a training text verbatim. With any temperature above 0, they veer off the 100% confidence path, which lets them leverage the concept association they came up with during training, makes their output more useful.

                  For every generated text, you could get a confidence heat map, then ask the model to refine sections that don’t meet a desired level of confidence. Especially the parts where a model makes stuff up, or hallucinates, are likely token sequences with much lower confidence than the rest.

                  Running a model several times, focusing on the sections with lower confidence, getting additional data from other sources like the internet, or some niche expert system, could eliminate many of the nonsense sections… and I have a reasonably suspicion that Google’s Gemini does exactly that, refining each output with 4 additional iterations, instead of blindly spitting out the first one.

              • From my understanding, AI is a essentially a statistical method so naturally it will use a confidence level. Its hard for me to take the leap of faith to confidence level will correlate to accuracy. Seems to me it would be more dependent on its data set. If its data contains a commonly held belief, that is incorrect, would it not have a high confidence level on an answer with that incorrect info? If we use a highly authoritative data set, that will be very limited and we’d be back to more of a keyword system than a LLM. I am sure with time, we’ll be in more of a middle ground where accuracy will be better but what will that be? 5% 3% 10%?

                I’ll freely admit I am not an expert in this at all.

                •  jarfil   ( @jarfil@beehaw.org ) 
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                  4 months ago

                  It’s not a statistical method anymore. One of the breakthroughs of large model neural networks, has been that during training an emergent process, assigns neurons to both relatively high level and specific traits, which at the same time “cluster up” with other neurons assigned to related traits. Adding just a bit of randomness (“temperature”) allows the AI to jump from activating one trait to a close one, but not to one too far away. Confidence becomes a measure of how close is the output, to a consistent set of traits trained into the network. Interestingly, a temperature of 0 gives a confidence of 100%… but produces gibberish.

                  If its data contains a commonly held belief, that is incorrect

                  This is where things start to get weird. An AI system based on an LLM, can iterate over its own answers looking for the optimal one (Q*), and even detect inconsistencies in them. What it does after that, depends on whoever programmed it:

                  • Maybe it casts any doubt aside, and outputs the first answer anyway (original ChatGPT did that, didn’t even bother self-checking too much)
                  • Or it could ask an authoritative source (ChatGPT plugins work like that)
                  • Or it could search the web for additional info (Copilot and Gemini do that)
                  • Or it could alert the user to both the low confidence and the inconsistencies (…but people want omniscient AIs, not “err… I’m not sure, Dave” AIs)
                  • …or, sometime in the future (or present?) they could re-train themselves, maybe via generating a LoRa, that would bring in corrected biases, or even additional concepts.

                  Over time, I think different AI systems will evolve to target accuracy, consistency, creativity, etc. Current systems are kind of rudimentary compared to what’s yet to come, and too many are used in very rudimentary ways by anyone who can slap an “AI” label and sell them.

        • I feel like customer support is one place where AI may actually be used going forward because companies don’t really care if their customers get support. The only wrinkle is that if companies get held to promises the AI makes (there’s that Canada Air incident from last year where the AI offered a refund and the company tried to walk it back).

          • I’ve had this discussion come up in meetings recently.

            CustomGPT is like $500/month for 5000 queries… that limitation and price (if you have a reasonable amount of customers), kind of just means you are better off hiring one employee. I’m not going to ping them for pricing for their enterprise plan beyond that, as going to cost an employee anyways.

    • With streaming services they’re proving it’s not viable to run a resource hog of a service with a measly monthly subscription.

      With social media they’re proving it’s not viable to run a resource hog of a service for free, even with advertisement.

      So naturally the best plan to monetize AI is to run a resource hog of a service with a measly monthly subscription and a free version without advertisements. /s

      •  EatATaco   ( @EatATaco@lemm.ee ) 
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        84 months ago

        You know it’s funny how many times I’ve heard that “it’s just predictive text algorithms!” As a dismissal that I’m beginning to think we’re just predictive text algorithms.

      • LLMs have been shown to have emergent math capabilities (that are the opposite of what is trained) so you’re simplifying way too much. Yes a lot is just “predictive text” but there’s a ton of “this was not the training and we don’t know how it knows this” as well.

        • Game of Life has cool emergent properties that are a lot more interesting and fun to play with than LLMs. LLMs also have emergent properties like, for instance, failing classification due to the manipulation of individual image pixels.

      • Not exactly.

        LLMs are predictive-associative token algorithms with a degree of randomness and some self-reflection. A key aspect is that anything can be a token, they can self-feed their own output, creating the basis for a thought cycle, as well as output control input for other algorithms. It remains to be seen whether the core of “(human) intelligence” is much more than that, and by how much.

        Stable Diffusion is a random image generator that refines its output based on perceptual traits associated with a prompt. It’s like a “lite” version of human dreaming, only with a super-human training set. Kind of an “uncanny valley” version of dreaming.

        It just so happens that both algorithms have been showcased at about the same time, and it’s the first time we can build a “set and forget” AI system that can both make decisions about its own next steps, and emulate human creativity… which has driven the hype into overdrive.

        I don’t think we’ll stop hearing about it, but I do think there is much more to be done, and it’s pretty much impossible to feed any of the algorithms with human experience data, without registering at least one human learning cycle, as in over many years from inside a humanoid robot.

        • LLMs are predictive associative token algorithms

          Ah, so they produce parts of words instead of whole words at a time. Totally different.

          with a degree of randomness and self reflection.

          And they’re hooked up to random number generators so if you give it the same input twice you’ll get different output. Totally makes it smarter.

          A key aspect is that anything can be a token

          …much like predictive text. Rarely will you find one that doesn’t suggest punctuation on occasion.

          they can self feed their own output

          …much like predictive text.

          as well as output control input for other algorithms.

          Oh, so you can tell it to suggest certain tokens more or less often. How fancy.

          It remains to be seen whether the core of human intelligence is much more than that.

          I mean, I’d say the ability to visualize things and reason about scenarios it hasn’t experienced before are a good start.

    • Funny you should mention that McKinsey published a paper a few months back concluding that GenAI will take over most of the jobs in America because it was good at doing what McKinsey Associates do. Missed by the authors is that the job of a McKinsey associate is to confidently spout nonsense all day long and that’s actually exactly what chatgpt is programmed to do.

    • That is so funny.

      chatgpt: “Artificial Intelligence (AI) represents a transformative investment opportunity, characterized by robust growth potential and broad applicability across industries. The AI market, projected to exceed $190 billion by 2025, offers substantial upside in sectors such as healthcare, finance, automotive, and e-commerce. As businesses increasingly adopt AI to enhance efficiency and innovation, associated firms are poised for significant returns. Key investment areas include machine learning, natural language processing, robotics, and AI-driven analytics. Despite risks like regulatory challenges and ethical concerns, the strategic deployment of capital in AI technologies holds promise for long-term value creation. Diversification within this space is advisable to mitigate volatility.”

  •  esaru   ( @esaru@beehaw.org ) 
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    4 months ago

    If Goldman Sachs said that, then most likely the opposite is true.

    I’m surprised how everyone here believes what that capitalist company is saying, just because it fits their own narrative of AI being useless.

    • I mean, ask pretty much anyone familiar with the workings of AI who doesn’t have a vested interest, and they’ll say the same thing. Goldman is right.

      I’d also say that it does have applications, but it’s going to take a moment for all the bullshit artists to move on to the next thing so the grown-ups can work. It’s a bit like graphene research circa-2011, although it’s way more proven than graphene ever was.

      They might also say that the moment it does work reliably we should be scared, although it’s fair to say there’s many experts who take the obvious stance.

      •  esaru   ( @esaru@beehaw.org ) 
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        4 months ago

        There are studies that suggest that the information investment firms publish is not based on what they believe to be true, but on what they want others, including their competitors, believe to be true. And in many cases for serving their investment strategy, it benefits them to publish the opposite of what they believe to be true.

        • Intentions aside, it’s just some independent research that anyone can review and critique. If the research is bad then it should be pointed out and won’t be taken seriously, undermining any influence from Goldman Sachs now and in the future

          •  esaru   ( @esaru@beehaw.org ) 
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            4 months ago

            Goldman Sachs would not publish it that prominantly if it didn’t help their internal goals. And their intention is certainly not to help the public or their competitors. There are independent studies of some topics that are all well made and get to opposite conclusions. Invedtment firms just do what serves them. I wouldn’t trust anything that they publish.

  • Oh no, you mean the big “smart” money investors that manage to crash the economy every decade or so and ruin every business they touch are gonna leave generative AI alone? Oh nooo. How will the science progress without Goldman Sachs’s guiding hand?

    Good riddance.