- Jalapeño Popper ( @jalapeno_popper561@lemmy.ml ) English94•9 days ago
No better time than now to degoogle your life.
- pe1uca ( @pe1uca@lemmy.pe1uca.dev ) English50•9 days ago
Well, the issue will be developers of other apps would force us to re-google since any build of the app would be useless unless installed from the play store…
- infeeeee ( @infeeeee@lemm.ee ) English51•9 days ago
MicroG devs are working on fakeing play integrity api since 2023: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues/2050
it seems that play integrity continue to change internally day to day… He is waiting that google stabilize it. Then will be a pull request.
- doctortran ( @doctortran@lemm.ee ) English8•8 days ago
Are they? Other comments in different PRs seem to indicate they have no intention of trying to subvert play integrity. Is there something more recent than this that indicates they’re trying?
- infeeeee ( @infeeeee@lemm.ee ) English6•8 days ago
Yeah, maybe “working on” was too generous, “aware of the issue and some preliminary work was already done” would have been more correct
Here is some recent discussion if it’s feasible at all: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/pull/2077
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English3•8 days ago
And…move to iOS? The even more locked down platform? What solution are you proposing here?
- 𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠 ( @ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ) English14•8 days ago
You can degoogle on Android you know. Takes some effort, but the end result is better than moving into a walled garden.
- stebo ( @stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English5•8 days ago
You can degoogle on Android you know.
only if your device is supported. Most aren’t…
- sunzu2 ( @sunzu2@thebrainbin.org ) 5•8 days ago
LineageOS with microg works for most devices
Issue is that it is no secure. People should be buying pixels flashing calyx or graphene going forward for their next upgrade IMHO
- doctortran ( @doctortran@lemm.ee ) English4•8 days ago
Issue is that it is no secure.
Explain. I’m tired of hearing this boogeyman, tell me exactly how Lineage is “not secure” but Graphene is?
Then maybe give me some examples of cases where that difference has actually been a problem.
Because it feels like a lot of these “unsecure” things people hand-wring over are really just user freedoms they may use to hurt themselves, not actual vulnerabilities that can’t be avoided with common sense.
- sunzu2 ( @sunzu2@thebrainbin.org ) 2•8 days ago
Primarily because bootloader is not lockable, plus delayed updates.
Also, they do some weird thing with how it is developed. I think it is always in some weird “developer” state but I don’t remember details.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English3•8 days ago
Lineage OS supports a few hundred devices
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English2•8 days ago
You can degoogle on Android you know.
Not if the app doesn’t work outside of Google’s app store, you can’t…?
- 𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠 ( @ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ) English2•8 days ago
Those are really quite rare. Most have workarounds these days or just work outright.
- sunzu2 ( @sunzu2@thebrainbin.org ) 2•8 days ago
Apps that don’t work are usually the worst privacy offenders lol
People will need to make a choice, corpos won’t make it easier for the slave
- doctortran ( @doctortran@lemm.ee ) English1•8 days ago
I mean, you can be as snotty about this as you like, but it doesn’t change the fact this “choice” is basically between participate in the same digital world as most people do with the most popular, most supported, and highest value apps, vs only what you can use in F Droid or something?
You’re calling them slaves but can you give them anything more appealing outside the walled garden than “privacy”? It’s not like everything on the play store has an F-Droid corollary. You’re basically telling them to dramatically reduce their own use case. Does that make them a slave?
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English2•8 days ago
Something AOSP like Lineage OS
You can install MicroG if you need play compatibility
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
That will not solve the problem in OP…
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•8 days ago
No play store no problems
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
Except there is a problem because you can no longer download apps from outside the Play Store. That’s what it says in the OP.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills…
- Jalapeño Popper ( @jalapeno_popper561@lemmy.ml ) English1•8 days ago
If a phone can’t be flashed to a different OS, then it can be degoogled with adb via pc, or Shizuku + Canta directly on the phone. There are other apps besides Canta that also work, but Canta is the easiest for non-techies to use.
Never buy an Apple product if you value sovereignty. Androids can be tweaked to cut out big brother.
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
I agree but I don’t understand what this has to do with the OP.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•8 days ago
You asked how to degoogle
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
Context, my friend.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•8 days ago
And…move to iOS? The even more locked down platform? What solution are you proposing here?
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
Is there an echo in here?
- Jalapeño Popper ( @jalapeno_popper561@lemmy.ml ) English1•8 days ago
Google is overreaching, yet again. That’s the gist of it. They want to be a monopoly. Better to get out now, than to wait until they’re so engrained in our lives that they become a shadow government. Our best short-term fix is to break up the company like we did to AT&T. Our best long-term fix is to erraticate money and corporate influence from politics entirely.
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
Better to get out now
And again I ask, and go where? Your choices for mobile OSs are:
- Apple
Choose Google and there’s no way around this issue. Choose Apple and you’ve locked yourself into an even more closed ecosystem.
Than to wait until they’re so engrained in our lives that they become a shadow government
Far too late for that, I’m afraid…
- Jalapeño Popper ( @jalapeno_popper561@lemmy.ml ) English2•8 days ago
There are more options, you just have to look. GrapheneOS, LineageOS, CalyxOS, DivestOS, /e/OS… Android is not synonymous with Google. Android is open source. All the OSs I’ve listed are based off of Android, and are open source. Google has their own version of Android, which is closed source. But it’s just another OS based off of AOSP.
- helenslunch ( @helenslunch@feddit.nl ) English1•8 days ago
GrapheneOS, LineageOS, CalyxOS, DivestOS, /e/OS
These are all various forks of #1, and thus subject to the same issue.
- Ghoelian ( @Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English50•8 days ago
Not a single app on my phone was installed through Google Play, it’s all Aurora. Guess if apps really do this i’ll just have to stop using them, cause I’m not installing the play store.
- Mwa ( @Mwa@lemm.ee ) English8•8 days ago
I wish i can degoogle my phone but its a few months old so no rom support and its a samsung :<
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English11•8 days ago
this is the reason phone selection for me is based on what it supports.
but samsungs are ruled out anyway. their service centers desttoys your phone if you have asserted your ownership of it, their software is way too unnecessarily complicated (not the part you see, but the low level part that complicates the flashing process), and they are generally a garbage company.
- Mwa ( @Mwa@lemm.ee ) English2•8 days ago
oh yeah you have to use their own software to flash but i never had samsung destroyed by them and they killed samsung dex pc app for mac but i think in a few years rom support for my phone will improve and there is also gsi roms you can use
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English3•8 days ago
its a relatively recent development. possibly it only applies to when you open it up, replace something inside but even if they are not searching for software modifications, the distinction is very small and you’re not likely to hear it in the news before experiencing it
- Mwa ( @Mwa@lemm.ee ) English1•8 days ago
i thought it was old
- Jalapeño Popper ( @jalapeno_popper561@lemmy.ml ) English11•8 days ago
Step 1: Shizuku
Step 2: Canta
Step 3: aShell You
Step 4: SaverTuner
You WILL want to remove Samsung Device Care, which also controls battery usage, and just so happens to be one of Samsung’s worst offenders when it comes to phoning home. SaverTuner is your foss replacement for it. After that, you can find a list of safe-to-remove apps for your particular device and start debloating. Be careful; some apps you’ll need a replacement for before you remove the stock counterpart.
- Mwa ( @Mwa@lemm.ee ) English2•8 days ago
I already use shizuku and savertuner they are soo good
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English2•8 days ago
Samsung isn’t one of the best for roms. Anyway you could stop using it while you port Lineage OS
- Mwa ( @Mwa@lemm.ee ) English2•8 days ago
Yeah but it might be hard
- cordlesslamp ( @cordlesslamp@lemmy.today ) English3•7 days ago
Quick question: what is the advantage of using Aurora to get apps instead of the Play Store?
I have Aurora but i don’t understand that, afaik both use the same APKs and can update interchangeably?
At first I thought Aurora remove some of the app’s tracking beacons but that’s not the case.
- HotsauceHurricane ( @HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.one ) English48•9 days ago
BOOOOO!
YOUR DECISIONS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.
google, not op
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English3•8 days ago
they’ll just wipe their tears each with another bank note.
you know what we need to do? to cook them alive on the public square!
no, not directly because of this. it’s been long overdue. - Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English2•8 days ago
- cleverusername ( @cleverusername@lemm.ee ) English43•8 days ago
What if I sideload purely to downgrade a bugged app? Just seems like yet another kick in the teeth by Google.
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 7•8 days ago
Google’s only providing the option, it’s up to individual devs to enable it on their app. If the app developer has chosen to block sideloading, then they probably have a reason for going out of their way to do so. Whatever you find that reason to be should inform your decision whether or not to continue using their app.
- doctortran ( @doctortran@lemm.ee ) English41•8 days ago
Their reasons mean nothing. It’s my device. I shouldn’t have to worry about an application installed on my device being policed because the developer got a hair up their ass about people downgrading.
The phrase “more secure” is becoming meaningless as it keeps being used as a blanket excuse for literally every user hostile change.
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 9•8 days ago
Sure, it’s your device. But it’s their app. Ultimately, it’s the developer’s call to make. You don’t have to use their app.
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English10•8 days ago
unless you are forced to use it, by government, employer, or such
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 4•8 days ago
Well then you know where to install it from.
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English5•8 days ago
from google play? on my degoogled phone?
- lolcatnip ( @lolcatnip@reddthat.com ) English3•8 days ago
Sounds like you’re using a phone that doesn’t meet the requirements specified by your employer. Might I suggest asking them for a company phone?
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 3•8 days ago
Sounds like the app developer does not want to support you as a user. You should take it up with devs that do this if that’s a concern.
- woodgen ( @woodgen@lemm.ee ) English4•8 days ago
We can still use their app with a little help from my reverse engineering tools.
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English4•8 days ago
Hopefully they don’t do online attestation
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 3•8 days ago
Cool, sounds like it ain’t a problem for you then. As I imagine it’s not a problem for most people.
- Virkkunen ( @Virkkunen@fedia.io ) 19•8 days ago
Explain to me what would be the good reasons McDonald’s has to block their app from running on a rooted device because it doesn’t pass SafetyNet or whatever Google is calling it now
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 3•8 days ago
Why would I explain something that has nothing to do with this discussion? This has nothing to do with rooted devices.
- Ghoelian ( @Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English19•8 days ago
It’s the same system, it’s all part of play integrity. And that also applies to this bullshit, why does McDonald’s care if I didn’t install their app from the play store?
- limerod ( @limerod@reddthat.com ) English2•8 days ago
Can’t you use the website instead? Is the MCDonalds app necessary for orders? I use hermit to sandbox webapps for services which do not require a app.
- Ghoelian ( @Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English7•8 days ago
Oh I don’t know if mcdonald’s specifically does this, I’ve never used the app, I just used it as an example because that’s what the guy above was talking about as well.
- ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝 ( @HK65@sopuli.xyz ) English2•8 days ago
IIRC they did coupons exclusively in their app a few years ago where I lived (haven’t checked since), and they hiked the price of everything, so if you don’t install the app, you get a 20% surcharge in effect.
That goes for every single shitty chain store as well.
- Chozo ( @Chozo@fedia.io ) 1•8 days ago
Why should I know? I’m not a McDeveloper.
If I had to guess, I’d assume it’s because there’s a payment system in their app and they don’t want people monkeying around with it and stealing food.
- Ghoelian ( @Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English9•8 days ago
McDonald’s was just an example, the point is most apps don’t need to do that at all.
I do happen to know how payment systems like that work, and thankfully those are all cloud-based, the only thing the app does is start transactions and check with the server if they’re paid. If they implemented it well, as I suspect a big corpo like McDonald’s probably would, their own order screen also checks server-side if orders are paid. Not much you can do from the app side to mess with that.
- ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝 ( @HK65@sopuli.xyz ) English1•8 days ago
the only thing the app does is start transactions and check with the server if they’re paid
Yeah, but the whole PCI DSS thing means that the app must still be secured. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to be tied to Google Play, but explain it to them.
- sunzu2 ( @sunzu2@thebrainbin.org ) 1•8 days ago
🤡
If apps like fidelity will run on aurora store withithout safety net and other bullshit, then shiti McDonalds app can take the risk too.
You are poorly educated on the iseue or a bootlicker
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English1•8 days ago
Because it is spyware?
- redditReallySucks ( @redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English3•8 days ago
I thought you could not downgrade non-debuggable apps?
- oldfart ( @oldfart@lemm.ee ) English15•8 days ago
But you can uninstall them and install a lower version
- sour ( @sour@feddit.org ) English7•8 days ago
You can always uninstall and install an older apk.
- ReversalHatchery ( @ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org ) English2•8 days ago
without uninstalling. that had a reason, safety, as apps are often not prepared to handle their “future” (relatively) config files and data formats
- Nawor3565 ( @Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) English35•9 days ago
Aw shit, it says this is supposed to detect when an app’s binary has been tampered with… That means it’s probably gonna be used to block stuff like ReVanced. I hope they can find a way around this that doesn’t require root.
- Altima NEO ( @altima_neo@lemmy.zip ) English20•9 days ago
Nah, revanced will just patch that out too!
- Vakbrain ( @Vakbrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English12•9 days ago
I guess Revanced would eventually have a patch to skip this check. It can already spoof the client and such, why not this as well. I hope so
- OmegaLemmy ( @OmegaLemmy@discuss.online ) English27•8 days ago
Can we also sue Google for the same shit as apple? Sideloading isn’t enough.
- lud ( @lud@lemm.ee ) English16•8 days ago
This is the individual app’s fault and not Googles. It’s like getting mad at Steam for allowing apps with DRM. Is feature is entirely optional and requires extra effort to implement.
Also didn’t Google already get sued in the USA for Android not being open enough or something like that.
- archchan ( @archchan@lemmy.ml ) English15•9 days ago
Google Play IS my “sideloading” app repository.
- asexualchangeling ( @asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml ) English12•8 days ago
How are those Linux phones coming along?
- Wait A Minute ( @chottomatte@lemdro.id ) English11•9 days ago
Some paid apps actually prevents the user from using it if it’s not paid from Google play
- jbk ( @jbk@discuss.tchncs.de ) English2•8 days ago
Kinda makes sense. A paid app on Google Play is a license to download the .apk file(s). Then a user could make copies, and without DRM, it’d be the same situation as with copyrighted movies and whatnot.
I’m not saying I support them, it’s just that they are like this for a reason
- umbrella ( @umbrella@lemmy.ml ) English5•6 days ago
when will this shit be cracked.