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Lol… Their ancestors only lived there after they ethnically cleansed the people who were already living there. They’ve been doing this crap for a long time.
Edit: to clarify, I’m talking about the Jewish people of Israel
When you say “they,” are you referring to all humans throughout all of human history? Not conquering/displacing people is a much more recent international norm
Not true. At least not for the Muslim conquest of the Levant according to Ben Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister:
“The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement. Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.” [7]
Ben Gurion is quoted by Shlomo Sand in his book https://blogs.umb.edu/joinercenter/2012/10/09/review-of-shlomo-sand-the-invention-of-the-jewish-people-london-verso-2009-translated-by-yael-lotan/
According to the Bible, yes. Which is most likely not true. Remember that Zionism started as a secular movement, with religious people getting more (very) on board relatively recently
Interesting… Is there more accurate information about how the Israelites ended up in that region? Did they just never do the whole Egypt thing?
The tribes of Israel were most likely Canaanites that made up the whole came in and conquered everyone in the area after being slaves story.
The history has scant evidence, but we can discount the whole exile story. Slaves tend to be maltreated and are the last ones to be fed during famine, and that leaves physical evidence on their skeletons. We don’t have evidence of that in Egypt; for the most part, their monuments were built by farmers who didn’t have anything else to do when the Nile flooded. Also, a large nomadic group–which Israel would have been under Moses according to the Biblical account–should leave behind a lot of trash for archeologists to find today.
Fundie Christians like to say “Egypt wouldn’t have told stories about a time they lost”, but that doesn’t matter. First, you better bring some good evidence to say the Red Sea parted and people could walk on dry land. Second, as shown above, there should be physical evidence that we can find. It’s not there, and it’s hardly for a lack of trying. This is one of the most picked over parts of the planet by archeologists.
What seems to have happened is that they just came from there in the first place. Yahwah started as a war god among a larger pantheon. The people who later became the Hebrews worshiped that god as their primary; they didn’t discount the existence of other gods, but they worshiped this one as their primary one (still polytheism at this point). This later evolved into discounting the importance of other gods (henotheism), and much later disregarding the existence of other gods altogether (monotheism). That especially came into play with Persian Zoroastrian influence after the Babylonian Exile.
In short, it was a religion that evolved out of the beliefs of the people already living there, and they mostly stayed right there. The Egyptian slavery bits were probably from oral stories at a time when Israel had a conflict with Egypt.
Do you have any sources to start learning about/researching this? This is very fascinating and haven’t heard much, if any, of this before.
Religion For Breakfast is a pretty good YouTube channel for this. Would also recommend Bart Ehrman’s podcast.
This is great to know! Thank you
What? Who are you talking about here?
The Israelites conquered Canaan from the Canaanites who were already living there.
I’m no historian, but I presume the Canaanites then moved to North America and founded Canaada
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Israel. According to the bible, the hebrews conquered the area and killed a lot of people living there
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Pretty sure they believe it did
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The jewish people have never wholly owned that area. Persians, Arabs, and many other races have also always lived there. It’s literally in the bible.
Also remember that the bronze age Jews were not at all special among the tribes of the area, their story about themselves is aggrandizing fiction that all the tribes did, it’s just the Jews’ stories survived and became popular
Also bronze age. Those that left left so long ago, the only right they have to the place is military might and the legal right given based on lobbying and the racism of the law makers in question.
The bible that has how many version and retellings?
They genocided the Canaanites in all of them.
There is historical/archaeological/genetic evidence.
That was how they stole that land in the first place. By murdering every man, woman, child, and animal in the land.
Genocide of the canaanites is definitely in the Bible but possibly/probably didn’t happen as much as the Bible says. I’m sure there were times when whole cities were put to the sword but a lot of the stories in the Bible seem more like they were made up later as a way of claiming racial purity. It made it so the Hebrews could say “there’s no way we’re mixed with canaanites cuz we killed all the canaanites”
(The Israelites were likely a subset of Canaanites)
Linus Torvalds - ban Israel developers from linux
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Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it? The ban didn’t happen because of the war against Ukraine. It happened because of the ongoing cyber war against democracy.
Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it?
Um, isn’t it? If anything, they are worse than Russia on this count.
Absolutely not. Russia’s propaganda efforts are unparalleled. They directly or indirectly fund many authoritarian movements across the globe and systematically spam social media with false information.
Israel doesn’t need to spam social media because they dominate mass media and have most of our politicians by the balls between AIPAC (the biggest funder of authoritarianism in the US) and straight up blackmail. That’s not to offer any legitimacy to your implication that Israel doesn’t also run massive disinformation campaigns on social media, because they excel at that as well.
Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe
You’re right, they’re trying to spread their pro-genocide propaganda all over the world
Israel doesn’t currently have sanctions pending against them that the Finnish government has a vested interest to enforce.
They should, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t believe Linus’ decision is rooted in politics - they’d have to vet each contribution anyway.
In addition to the first Israeli migrants being Europeans, they displaced the actual indigenous population that was native to the land. The Muslim and Christian populations are mostly descendents from ancient Israelis that converted.
Israel is basically just the US, which is why they’re such strong allies. They have the same roots.
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We’re talking about the first migrants to Israel. Indigenous Jewish people didn’t migrate to Israel, did they?
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The region has been a site of religious, not ethnic, conflict. Jews that converted to Islam were able to stay in the Caliphate, the idea that all ethnic Jews were expelled is a myth. There was a lot of emigration, but the truth is that many of the Muslim Palestinians today are descendants of ancient Jewish people.
Claiming that Palestinians are just invaders that stole Jewish land is bad history.
Lol I thought this was a Mormon meme at first
Urim and thummim pilled
Common hamid W
Fuck Israel and America
They didn’t even live there, they are foreign LARPers who hate Arabs
Native Americans are not The Chosen People. And it is antisemitic to make the comparison.
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You say that, but . . . :
…Throughout the 1800’s, adherents cited the current existence of the “red sons of Israel” (i.e. Native American) as evidence of the authenticity of the The Book of Mormon.
Adherents saw Native Americans as part of God’s chosen people and they believed that preaching to them was part of the gathering of Israel which will precede the millennium. The church’s long history with Native Americans is tied to their beliefs about The Book of Mormon. According to sociologist Marcie Goodman, historically Latter Day Saints held paternalistic beliefs about Native Americans needing help. Outreach to Native Americans became the first mission of Smith’s newly organized Church of Christ, as the purpose of The Book of Mormon was to recover the lost remnant of the ancient children of Israel (e.g. Native Americans).
I don’t understand this comment - are you saying they’re a higher/better people because they’re “The Chosen People”? That they deserve the land? And how is the comparison antisemitic?
Because anything and everything is anti-Semitic
I’m going to say something probably incredibly offensive, but I have the safety of my funny online username so it’s ok.
The people are only “chosen” if you subscribe to their beliefs. If you’re insinuating that Native Americans aren’t “chosen” either, then you’ve forgotten that they actually use a picture of you in the dictionary to define “hypocrite”.
You are allowed to question peoples’ beliefs, but you are certainly NOT allowed to take harmful action against them because they are different.
And to be perfectly clear, I am not commenting on which side of the current conflict is entitled to what. I’m not touching that conversation with a 12ft pole.
Native Americans are not The Chosen People.
–Joseph Smith
Huh?
This is a weird comparison. Native Americans were the victims a of horrific genocide similar to Palestinians now.
I understand it more in a way of “if you think Israel is morally doing the right thing, give native americans back their land.”
Native Americans should be given back their land just like Palestinians.
It becomes pretty horrible if you believe that Israel is in the wrong, though, which is probably why people don’t think it works
The post is literally a satire towards ones who support Israel, it shouldn’t work any other way
- desktop_user [they/them] ( desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) BannedBanned from communityEnglish0·2 years ago
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Morality did not suddenly appear with international law and international law does not define morality now. What an ignorant take. ‘Property rights’ are made up by western colonialists to oppress indigenous peoples.
Over 80% of the population of Israel was born in Israel. If you want them to leave then you’re talking about ethnic cleansing, not decolonization.
I think support for Israel is based on their sharing three principle values of the west: liberalism, democracy, & capitalism.
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I’ve met a few fascists in my life and every one of them has referred to Israelis as “the tribe,” and advocated for arming the Palestinians so they could finish what Hitler could not. Their ideology was ugly but also very unsupportive of Israel.
Godwin’s Horseshoe.
Not really, it’s just a thinly veiled excuse so that any criticism of our current neocolonialist policies can be treated and swept up under the rug just like centuries before, except the rug is painted in the color of supposed religious intolerance (oh shit, guess I still can’t be atheist in the 21st century).
Oh snap! Gottem!!!
