Hi there, I came here to the BIFL Lemmy out of suspicion that the reddit posts are just unlabelled marketing, and I was wondering the possibility of sourcing goods that are more to a BIFL standard? In my area, second hand goods tend to be really quite poor in quality (reselling fast fashion) or otherwise not present, and I have not inherited anything that does last. So I would apprecite advice or reccomendations for finding goods at a BIFL standard. I was also wondering if maybe there would be anyone with good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production so that I may be able to tailor what I need without having to buy from the poor selection aforementioned, does anyone know of any of this?

TL:DR I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as ‘BIFL’ has been enshittified, and would like advice on being able to search for sustainable goods for a local area (not specified because I’m hoping for advice with searching, not exactly for specific reccs)

  •  ptc075   ( @ptc075@lemmy.zip ) 
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    692 months ago

    My tiny contribution here is to look things aimed at commercial use, not consumer grade. For example, next time you need to buy a can opener, buy it from a restaurant supply shop instead of Amazon or Walmart.

  • To a large extent I tend to think the same way I was taught with cars, simple is sturdy. Skip the fancy features and WiFi widgets and you’ll replace things a lot less often. It’s not always practical, but I’m willing to bet my cast iron cookware is going to be in roughly the same shape far longer than some stamped sheet metal with anti stick coating and a glass lid.

    • yeah, i absolutely agree. I tend to want very little, which helps me to not have to be buying things too often, especially since I go for things that are simple enough to serve some function without much else. Does ‘simple’ stuff that is made today have a similar quality to things that have proven their durability over years?

      • I guess that’s hard to say without the benefit of time behind it. Part of why you see some brands show up over and over though is that they have the history to back up the claims and plenty often those places are not going to risk that reputation of reliability to cheap out on the quality now.

  • I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as ‘BIFL’ has been enshittified

    Sadly, I’m sure this happens a lot in the name of “marketing”.

    There are a few things that I look at to help ensure the best chance of getting something that’s BIFL:

    • Does the company or product have a good track record? I’d trust my Leatherman to be BIFL over whatever no-name clone you see on Aliexpress.

    • Does the company offer a lifetime warranty (or one that’s 20+ years)? If so, has the company been around for decades?

    • Is the item repairable and easy to maintain? Even if something isn’t marketed as BIFL, you can likely extend the product’s life by decades through simple maintenance and care.

    • Does the item have any built-in planned obsolescence features? Proprietary built-in battery? Components that are glued in place? Sealed shut so you can’t open it without destroying the item? etc…

    • Is the product simple or complex? The more complex, the more likely it will fail, but this isn’t always the case if you are able to maintain/repair components.

    • Textiles can be tricky, but not impossible to keep going for decades if the quality is good enough.

    Sadly, I do think that many companies aren’t interested in making BIFL products because PROFITS!!! I think the market for BIFL will be more with custom fabricators and small businesses.

  •  Justin   ( @jlh@lemmy.jlh.name ) 
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    2 months ago

    I think it depends on exactly what item you’re looking for. Plenty of vintage coats out there, I just bought two 40+ yo military wool coats this season since my old jacket is wearing out and isn’t that stylish. There’s probably local jeans manufacturers that also recycle fabric, like Jeansverket in Sweden. Rose Anvil on YouTube is a good source for finding boots that will last decades.

    There is definitely enshittification out there, but it’s not impossible to find BIFL out there.

    • Recycled jeans is actually a really good suggestion that I hadn’t thought of, I’ll look into it, thanks :). May I ask where you bought the military jackets, even if it was just ebay or something? I’d like to expand my knowledge of storefronts, and I am horrid at searching for them.

      •  Justin   ( @jlh@lemmy.jlh.name ) 
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        32 months ago

        yeah, the jeans I bought weren’t recycled, but they do have a system for recycling them when they’re worn out.

        I bought a 1942 army great coat off of ebay, lots of them up there. I bought a 1980’s navy peacoat at a random vintage store somewhere around Alphabet City in NYC. Be aware that most people size those coats 4-6 down because they’re meant to go over multiple thick shirts, blouses, and midlayers in military use, but with a normal shirt and sweater you don’t need them so large.

  • Throwing in a little odd advice for the secondhand scene - even if the shops are bad, I’ve had some good luck with estate sales and cleanouts (where a family or realtor basically opens the home to anyone who’ll cary stuff away and save them the trouble and cost of throwing it out). It can feel kinda bad, picking through stuff in that context, but we’ve saved a bunch of nice old tools and kitchen stuff that way, and the houses generally have everything else you might need for a house. Personally I think the best BIFL stuff is old and made before they really perfected enshitifying their products.

    The cleanouts I’ve been to we found through postings on our local free groups (which I also really recommend) or word of mouth, but I used to know some folks who went to them professionally, looking for merchandise for their own businesses, so they must be advertised somewhere normal people would find them too.

  • i think one thing to keep in mind with BIFL is that it’s gonna be painfully expensive, and we tend to have a skewed perspective since a lot of what people buy these days is second hand and thus nowhere near the original sale value.

    Like has been said for new BIFL stuff you want to look for business/industrial stuff, or handmade things from passionate people, which is not cheap.

    I think it’s pretty unrealistic to expect most of your things to be BIFL unless you can get second hand/inherited things, i’d say think about what things are most important to you and try to invest your money into those few things and find ways to make everything else as minimal and sustainable (and cheap) as possible.
    For example people in the medieval era and before generally just wore simple leather turnshoes in the warm seasons, which were fully expected to wear out and they’d need to slap together a new pair every now and then. But that’s fine because literally all you need to make them is some crummy leather scraps!

    • I’ll start tanning some hide right away!

      Thank you, I guess it helps to put things into perspective when it comes to pricing. I always try to get stuff second-hand, but then it becomes a struggle to grab anything before anyone else! And then there’s sizing on topnof that. I should probably look into tailoring or alterations.

  • Military and police gear tends to be local, high quality and available as second hand. If you can tailor and it somewhat suits your style then it is a good option.

    If you are able to tailor, try to find a group. They will have local knowledge and know where to find quality cloth and other products.

    •  Onomatopoeia   ( @Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe ) 
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      2 months ago

      My experience with military gear is the opposite - it was designed to last long enough to use, with the recognition it’s going to be lost or destroyed in battle.

      That, of course, depends on the item. Older stuff can be quite sturdy. For example, I have a 1960’s self-contained analog multimeter that’s in it’s own aluminum case (looks like it was designed in the 50’s, just post-WWII). It’s clearly been banged around (the case is rough) but it still works, and is designed to be regularly adjusted - there’s a sticker or label inside showing the last time it was adjusted.

      It seems stuff from at least the 1980’s (probably the 60’s, really) had more of a “built just good enough” design goal. Regular/continuous maintenance isn’t much of a concern for the military as compared to us civilians.

    • thank you for the recommendation :) I’ve looked at military disposal sites local to my area before, though they’ve seemed a little off, but I will redouble my efforts. Do you know of any good ways to find sites that sell proper used mil/pol gear, rather than just being named so?

      • Basically any military surplus store really. Online stores all tend to have very aligned pricing so but you cannot inspect the (used) item for issues, sizing, stains or damage, etc so I’d recommend finding your local military surplus store - just recognize that you’re thrifting not shopping. Not everything is available, nor worth having necessarily, and it’s commonly been worked hard and not cared for before it found its way to the shelf.

        If you want to roll the dice and get some serious deals, there’s usually a liquidator or auction website for your local PD and/or government to offload their outdated but workable gear and tech. But they usually have very particular rules around shipping and pickup, you arrange all that on your own.

  •  cpkwtf   ( @cpkwtf@ttrpg.network ) 
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    62 months ago

    American Giant (i think) grows and mills their cotton in America and the garments are made in the US as well. Last I checked. I don’t wanna say it’s BIFL, but I have an American giant hoodie I bought probably 9 years ago that I still pull out every fall and wear until spring. It’s got holes in the elbow patches, but the elbows are double or triple layered, so it’s still warm.

  •  HelixDab2   ( @HelixDab2@lemm.ee ) 
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    62 months ago

    good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production

    There largely isn’t any of this. There’s really very, very little in the way of locally-sourced textiles, and what there is is going to be art rather than functional. I don’t know where you live, but in the US, there are only a handful of mills that remain, and you’d need to be placing a mill order (e.g., hundreds or thousands of yards of fabric) in order to do business with them. OTOH, there are often local tailors that will be able to order high-quality textiles to make bespoke garments for you. The downside is that this is REALLY expensive. For instance, I’m a bit slow at patternmaking, and not the best at fitting, and if I charged only $25/hr, you’d be looking at around $100 for the initial sloper, and probably another $150 to tune the fit. From there, patterning for a specific garment can take a day or more, depending on what you want, and that’s not including cost of materials and sewing time. For a bespoke suit, you’re starting at about $5000 from an experienced tailor.

    That aside, there are certainly a large number of things that are buy once, cry once. Take kitchen knives; if you buy a Yoshimi Kato nakiri, a good set of Shapton glass stones (…which, TBF, will probably cost well over $1000), and take care of it, it will easily last your entire life. If you buy furniture from highly skilled carpenters, you’ll likely be buying something that will last over a century as long as it’s not abused; my grandfather made Craftsman-style furniture and cabinetry in the 20s-30s, and I know for certain that a number of his pieces are still around and in use. But buying the kind of quality and craftsmanship that will allow certain products to last for a lifetime is NOT cheap. While expensive doesn’t always mean quality, high-quality is almost never inexpensive.

  • I use Goodonyou.eco to check out fashion and beauty brand’s ethical standards. It’s not perfect but it gives a pretty good ‘quick view’ of whether they’re dog shit or not.

    In terms of BIFL, other than my Sunbeam Coffee filter machine, we’ve taken to buying second hand or locally made furniture.

    • thank you for the site suggestion :) I always struggle to track down the ethics of companies, which leaves me in a kind of choice paralysis.

      Seems sunbeam is pretty popular around these parts haha, happy cake day by the by

  • Like others have said it depends what you are looking for, but durable goods still exist. I’m generally on the look for tech but digital tech isn’t really going to be BIFL no matter what and no one really makes analog or mechanical tech anymore. Asking around in this community and others like it for suggestions for specific things that you are looking for may be your best bet. Additionally, some folks like myself will occasionally write up a review on something that they have bough new that has the makings of being durable.

    Basically what I look for is how “stout” does the thing feel (does it feel like it might fall apart just looking at it?), will it fail gracefully (will it remain somewhat functional even if parts of it have failed), how difficult will it be to repair (in the case of tech how is it sealed and are parts available), and what is the reputation of the company in question (do they make trash or do their things last a while). Edit: Another thing I look for is, is the thing overly complicated in design. The simpler it is made the more likely it is to survive the kind of abuse I am likely to put it through.

    As for locally made, I wouldn’t worry about that overly much. Just because something was “Artisanally crafted” does not mean that it was necessarily well made.

    You mentioned clothing specifically so I’ll put in a good word for Carhartt’s work wear. Most of their stuff that I’ve owned has been destroyed through actual abusive use and not shoddy workmanship. I can also vouch for Saddleback Leather, at least as of about 10 years ago. The bags I’ve bought from them are still going strong despite borderline abusive treatment by me. Not sure of their current reputation though and their owner is a bit “odd”. Military surplus also tends to be well made, assuming it is actual surplus. I’ve seen multiple examples here in the US where cheap Chinese copies have been put on the shelves and called surplus, particularly with uniforms and bags.

    For tools, I’m fond of Husky and Kobalt hand tools and Ryobi power and yard tools, though in truth I haven’t had to buy new tools in 10-ish years, Though I did just have a Ryobi leaf blower die on me after 6 years service. Still debating with myself whether to replace it with another Ryobi blower or begin transitioning to Ego. Which is another tool company I hear very good things about.

    • I myself yearn to still be able to buy analog and mechanical things (varying, obvs; i.e im in good health so i dont need an electric salt shaker, etc) but they’re weirdly uncommon now, you just cant repair electrics the same :( (through random prodding, lol)

      thank you for the appraising method reccomendation! I did also wanna quickly say that when I say local I don’t mean ‘artisinal’ but more 'i would rather avoid shipping costs, unneeded transport (for sustainanility reasons), and if you source things overseas, it’s likely a bigger name i.e, prone to enshittification. Is that odd? should I bite the bullet and even buy second hand from overseas?

      also, I’ve tried looking at surplus, but it’s really hard to sort through (feels like its your mentioned cheap chinese copies), or is being sold for ‘collecting’ (i.e vintage and very expensive)

      • I myself yearn to still be able to buy analog and mechanical things (varying, obvs; i.e im in good health so i dont need an electric salt shaker, etc) but they’re weirdly uncommon now, you just cant repair electrics the same :( (through random prodding, lol)

        Digital gear is cheaper, lighter, and FAR more compact. The trade off is that it just doesn’t last as long. As for repair, It’s not really more difficult (so long as you can get the chips), it’s just a different skill set is required than in the past. Gen Z would be baffled looking at an old tube amp or spring reverb. God help them if they dug into an old Pinball or DJ machine from the 60’s or 70’s.

        thank you for the appraising method reccomendation! I did also wanna quickly say that when I say local I don’t mean ‘artisinal’ but more 'i would rather avoid shipping costs, unneeded transport (for sustainanility reasons), and if you source things overseas, it’s likely a bigger name i.e, prone to enshittification. Is that odd?

        I get you. I’m part of that supply chain, drive a truck for a living.

        Not sure where your from, but here in the US it is almost impossible to buy locally made for anything except services. Manufacturing is too thinly spread out, assuming you can even find something US made. Best we can do here is to try and buy from local suppliers where possible, which for many of the things I often need is not always possible.

        should I bite the bullet and even buy second hand from overseas?

        Secondhand junk is still junk. Though, if you can get it for a reasonable price you might get some use of it and delay it’s trip to the dump. Though it has to be extremely discounted for me to bite.

        also, I’ve tried looking at surplus, but it’s really hard to sort through (feels like its your mentioned cheap chinese copies), or is being sold for ‘collecting’ (i.e vintage and very expensive)

        Military surplus is VERY regional. Here in the US, most of the Cold War surplus got sold off back in the early 2000’s. Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t generate nearly the build up of excess material that Vietnam did, hence the slim pickings. Given the World landscape, I’d say the picking will be slim for a good long while.

        • Digital gear is cheaper, lighter, and FAR more compact.

          can’t say you’re wrong there, its just that when something has a mechanical handle or button it seems so much more reliable (touchscreen cars, anyone?)

          Secondhand junk

          truly? I had considered buying things pre-owned would mean that they had proven their durability? (In addition to sidestepping ethical concerns, as presented by buying new) i guess theres many kinds of second hand. does military surplus count?

          Given the World landscape, I’d say the picking will be slim for a good long while.

          Hey, won’t need to look for surplus when conscripted, right?

      • I think it got enshitified when Newell bought them out. The older rotrings might be better quality. I have two of their pens because customer service sent me one for free because I said it broke off. It’s still a nice weighted pen and I still use it. I just try to be nice with it now. I even got a few of my friends to get the rotring pen and pencils

        • I discovered that much of my problem was the stock ink that came in it; it felt terrible to write with. I ended up ordering a Parker Jotter and replacement ink, so I’m trying both out to decide which I like better. I think I like the form of the Jotter better, but it’s quite small and light. I like the weight of the rotring 600 more. I think I’m going to try both out and return one of them. Or just keep them both, I haven’t quite decided yet.