As promised, here is an interview with @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social from #Thunderbird, on the whole #Mozilla and #Firefox terms of use situation.
We talk about why this had to happen, how Thunderbird will handle their own Terms of Use, what’s happening at Mozilla, and what’s changing.
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social Great video! I just feel the whole thing has been very poorly communicated. What @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social is doing here Mozilla should have been doing from the very beginning. We’re a fairly big Firefox redistributor and there has been no communication towards us. And it does make people nervous here.
BTW is there any particular reason why the video is only 720p on PeerTube and 1080p on YouTube?
@sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social No, it’s likely just because transcoding isn’t finished yet :)
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social It’s awesome of you to upload to PeerTube, I love that! ❤️
If it’s not too much to ask, could you also post PeerTube links in your posts going forward? Because I didn’t even know you did that.
@sebulon@mastodon.social @sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social You can follow the Peertube channel on Mastodon directly, and get a post for each video automatically ;)
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social Yes now I know and I am, thank you! Still, I think it would be great to raise awareness of PeerTube as alternative, as many (like myself) didn’t even know about it.
@sesivany @thelinuxEXP @ryanleesipes It has also been very poorly communicated by the wider community by making the usual not so useful noise in aiding to understand what’s actually happening.
@auser @thelinuxEXP @ryanleesipes IMHO it is only amplification of the original poor communication. I don’t mean to critise, it’s just really hard to get it right sometimes. Speaking from experience. We at Red Hat have had our share of poor public communication. 🙈
@sesivany @auser @ryanleesipes I think we can’t dismiss the entire thing as just miscommunication, and outrage amplifying that. There ARE valid causes for concern behind the stuff that’s has been explained :)
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social There are definitely legitimate concerns. Imagine you have customers who type top secret information into Firefox and you learn without prior notice that ToS now requires them to license all that stuff to Mozilla and it’s undercommunicated with “trust us, we are doing it in good faith”.
@ryanleesipes@mastodon.social@thelinuxEXP @sesivany @ryanleesipes Not dismissing the entire thing as miscommunication but miscommunication is a very big problem in social media, specially now, and the FOSS community is not exempt of that. Everybody needs to be more aware of their behavior and try to understand and be empathetic on how things are on the perceived “opposite side” and respond accordingly.
@thelinuxEXP @sesivany @ryanleesipes In summary: Rants are not helpful feedback.
@auser @sesivany @ryanleesipes I’d counter that by: it’s not necessarily the goal to be productive, or the role of any commentator to be productive.
Ranting and criticizing without offering solutions is 100% ok, and fine. Just because we don’t have a solution, or we don’t show understanding for the 100th miscommunication doesn’t mean what we’re ranting about isn’t valid ;)
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social I don’t think ranting is criticizing, or how it should be understood. Criticizing offers arguments and explanations like you did in your video. Ranting does not offer these.
BTW, I’m not directly refringir to you Nick (i like your channel a lot), but there’s a thing that content creators could address more explicitly and that probably you are already aware of: How negative communications are sometimes at least part of the fuel of a successful media channel.
Ranting without trying to understand first (which is a lot of the reactions that I’ve seen on this topic) isn’t helpful at all, to no one except maybe the ego of the people ranting.
It’s even possible to assume malice if one is sincerely convinced that there is some, but the minimum is to also present the arguments that could explain how maybe malice wasn’t the cause, and why you still think that malice is involved.
@auser@mastodon.social @sesivany@vivaldi.net @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social Thanks for uploading the episodes to peertube nick. I recently abandoned YT and you are one of the few good ones who does both, wich is appreciated
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social
“Why this had to happen”? Well, that’s certainly ominous and gaslight-y. Will #Mozilla next be asserting the right to scrape and sell the contents of our emails as well?
#Thunderbird
@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social It actually did have to happen, du to regulator pressures. How it was done isn’t good, IMO, but they did have to add terms of use.
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social FWIW, these changes make Firefox not really a viable option anymore in the current political environment, independent of whether the changes “had to happen.”
Such a big change should merit reconsideration of the contract with google rather than the drastic widening of TOS on behalf of all users (esp considering one of the first things I do is disable google as the default search engine).
Quoth the ToU announcement:
the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) defines “sale” as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information by [a] business to another business or a third party” in exchange for “monetary” or “other valuable consideration.”
Mozilla is not supposed to be doing any of that!
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social honestly my gripe isnt that the terms are badly written but that they exist in the first place.
If what is said in the video is true, are distros under pressure to include a ToS?
They “sell data” under the definition of sale that is in the context of the video, since they pass the data to firefox.
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@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social I did… something, yay!
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social Sounds like an important conversation! Curious to see how Thunderbird navigates this and what changes are coming. 🚀
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social Only a few minutes in, but already I’m greatly appreciating the conversation.
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social I imagine a lot of folks will be watching this like a hawk.
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social on the regulatory pressure point, this is starting to seem like “we may sell your data” is going to become the new “contains substances known to cause cancer” (California Prop 65) with such a broad definition, which is unfortunate because it will end up diluting the meaning :/
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social Thanks, tot was really interesting. I learned a lot from the video and the peek behind the Mozilla curtain.
@thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @ryanleesipes@mastodon.social thanks for this interview. I still feel unconfortable with all of this, but really appreciated the discussion.
I love Firefox and Thunderbird even more, I would be sad to have to switch!deleted by creator
