I’ve been feeling gushy about my setup lately, I think I’ve finally found my home on Linux. For decades I’ve distrohopped each year and never was really happy with it all, but Fedora Atomic has changed that.
Some things I can do with Fedora Atomic that I cannot do with other Linux distros:
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I can rebase to Bazzite for gaming performance when I feel like having a long gaming session.
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I can rebase to Secureblue when I think I will not be gaming and would prefer a more secure linux setup.
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I can update my system and not have to worry about special instructions, its extremely stable. Many times in the past, running a small ma-and-pa distro with most things pre-configed for performance would end with it breaking after a couple of major updates. This isn’t true for configs like Bazzite and Secureblue, they are remarkably stable across many major updates due to how rpm-ostree functions.
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Distrobox and Flatpak are more than enough at this stage for most programs and they help you avoid making too many alterations to the base image, greatly speeding up the swaps between major images.
The kicker? Your user configs and home files are never changed when you ‘image hop’. It always feels like you just installed a fresh distro whenever you upgrade, and the performance benefits are noticeable. You don’t have to tinker and do the same changes over and over, its all handled for you by rpm-ostree.
10/10 this is the future of Linux. I hope for a future where I can rebase entire Linux distros while maintaining my configs with one simple command, but for now, Fedora Atomic is fantastic.
The downsides:
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There is one major downside, and its that all of your system files are read-only. Personally, I’ve found a dozen ways to get around this, it requires thinking inside the Distrobox. It is a notable issue for many people, though. This means you cannot make specific tweaks without making a whole new image for yourself. Though in practice, I have found the ecosystem has grown a lot. Other people have already made the best tweaks available for you with only a few simple commands.
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Rpm-ostree also is slow to update because its essentially building a whole git tree to make sure your updates never break and are as stable as possible. You also have to reboot each time you alter it, which can be annoying, but if you stick to flatpaks and distroboxes, this issue is mitigated significantly.
10/10 this is the future of Linux.
I hope it’s a future of Linux, not the future. I’m not a fan of atomic distros, mostly because if their reliance on flatpak and the like
My biggest disadvantage of atomic distros is flatpak reliance too. I hate how bad the terminal interface for managing/running flatpaks is. But I still hope that this will improve in the future.
I feel like flatseal mitigates this a bit but I do agree that flatpaks have room to improve. Particularly with making sure flatpaks are verified against the open source projects they are made from.
Flatpaks really aren’t for terminal stuff, it at least wasn’t the intention
Flatpaks are better for security though. Containerization is a necessity for any serious device connecting to the internet.
Linux users got way too confortable giving any obscure package they found on AUR root access to their entire device, lol.
And that’s why it’s good that it’s an option! I just don’t want it to become the only option
Fair. I think for as long as there is a will to maintain traditional distros (which there is), there will be options.
Hell, people are still keeping Thinkpads T480 alive and relatively secure by making custom libre bootloaders! The F(L)OSS community is awesome.
Why are you installing malware in the first place?
I agree. Fundamentally, you still need good distros to plug into distrobox to make swapping between immutable systems quicker. In general I feel like running Fedora Atomic has really opened my eyes to the possibilities of using distrobox + boxbuddy to get quick and easy installs from AUR or something and saving annoying-to-make configs in a backup file somewhere.
Atomic is also absolutely fantastic for throwing on an old computer that you use rarely. The update will not break after letting it sit for so long without them.
What about NixOS? It seems to be doing something very different from most distros. I used it briefly and it was a refreshing experience to just update the config file to add and remove programs, I know that a lot of people share their configs and it makes it easy to keep programs consistent from different installs. I would have installed it on this laptop if the installer wasn’t giving me so many issues, so I ended up with MXLinux instead, but I still look on my NixOS days fondly.
It’s on my list to try!
Having tried NixOS, I gotta say the ability to quickly restore everything from a single config (its main premise) is overrated when it comes to home systems. Invaluable for production environments, though.
The rest can be done on any other Linux, and it would probably be preferred by most.
I keep saying this.
If you’re a sysadmin in charge of a bunch of computers, by all means use NixOS.
But for personal use? Its easier to install everything by hand every time you reset your laptop (which should be maybe once per year at most) than it is to set up a config file on NixOS.
It’s about the certainty to have what you want, where you want it, reliably. I run NixOS with Impermanence, which means I reset my root partion on every boot, and have what state I need specifically opt-in. And I run a shared config over multiple devices (home PC and Laptop), so installing something on one also installs it on the other, next time I rebuild. It certainly takes time getting used to, but I’ve been really enjoying it so far
That’s fine. Again, I don’t understand the use case.
I certainly don’t install or uninstall programs so often that I need to systematize it, and I only have 2 computers so its probably easier to just manually install them on each machine than to use some obscure coding language to achieve the same.
But to each their own. Linux is awesome also because of the options it offers to everybody.
Sounds like a good way to do Linux phones.
Honestly, I haven’t considered this before but it sounds like a great idea.
An image-based system would be the bare minimum to achieve basic security, but there would still be so many security issues compared to Android and iOS, that I don’t think Linux phones are worth putting time and development effort into.
AOSP is a fantastic base for open source mobile systems. The FOSS mobile development community should rather shift its focus to AOSP, develop a good understanding of it and get familiar with the code, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with mobile Linux distros.
We really cannot rely on aosp because while google in control of source code and not take any contribution to code we have in relastic case "u permitted to read code and clone " and back feedback and as result we will have aosp as google wish it only for their own profits and theirs views how they see it.I am not even talking that they not use any enforce policy that manufactures cannot lock bootloader without ability to unlock
I appreciate your mentioning the downside. I am way too much of a tinkerer for a read-only root to be acceptable for me, but I’m glad you found something you like.
eh, it’s not all root… /etc and /var are RW
Oh, nice!
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Distrobox and Flatpak are more than enough at this stage for most programs
Maybe for you, but personally I could never get by with only that. I have zero interest in atomic distros. To me they look like an inferior version of NixOS, which I have yet to fully wrap my head around. Until then I’ll stick to Arch (BTW)
Same here. I have and will always periodically reinstall no matter which OS I happen to be using. Arch is the only distro that keeps me coming back because installation and setup is such an active process. Every time around I learn something new and get more effecient at the process, which is so much more rewarding than filling a few boxes and waiting on a progress bar as is the case with most distros I have experienced.
I think it comes down to priorities.
Whenever someone mentions Arch the pro arguments are always something in the lines of “I get to tinker”, “I learn so much reading the documentation”, “We are first in line to receive packages”, “We have packages that no other distro has”.
As someone who uses a laptop for work, all of those things sound like a nightmare. If I were a student with spare time on my hands, maybe I’d value such a distro more.
But as it stands, stability without compromising modern technology (I wouldn’t use a Debian-based x11 distro) and minimal options to tinker with, is my sweet spot. Because I need my laptop to have it’s security updates on time, and just work.
I really like it as well. I did three major version upgrades so far and they have been flawless. I also really like Flatpak, finally a way of easily installing something on Linux without breaking half of the system because the application you wanted to install uses libfoo 2.0 and not libfoo 1.9.9-patch-1337. With my atomic desktop applications that worked yesterday also work today. Things don’t randomly break all the time.
The future of Fedora Atomic also looks exciting; Timothée Ravier is working on sysexts which are a way of installing applications without ostree layering. I could remove most of my ostree layered packages with that.
Oooh, didn’t know about that. Very exciting
did three major version upgrades so far and they have been flawless.
To be fair, I’ve upgraded normal Fedora for like… 8-10 versions in a row maybe, and never had a problem
The biggest issue I’ve had is tweaks causing instability over time. I also have had some issues where I was updating a debian install that hadn’t been updated in 3 years and it broke and would require tweaking to fix (why do this when I can just load a new immutable install and fix it for good?). I have enough computers laying around that I’d really rather it work when I want to as a sure thing. So far my testing with immutable distros has been stellar, I’ll let everyone know if my ostree tweaks and updates don’t load in 3 years, lol.
I think this is a big enough problem that even the Fedora team considered it an issue and therefore pushed out Fedora Atomic.
I’ve updated enterprise Linux machines automatically for decades. The score is tens of thousands of upgrades, 1 problem I caused, 1 packaging glitch.
You don’t need to take on risky drek like flatpaks to get there. It’s one command in enterprise and you’re kinda done forever.
Glad you like your setup. I hope it works for you and you never learn the risks of flatpaks.
I was gonna comment this, decided not to, then decided the info should be part of this thread either for OP or future readers, so here goes:
Enterprise Linux distributions are unbeatable for their purpose. To your point, I’ve never in my entire career had even the smallest issue maintaining one, they’re wonderful. They achieve this, though, by being a stable, truly versioned release that will never see anything beyond minor upgrades. The reason why nobody recommends server distros for gaming is because of hardware compatibility and library support, and you end up maintaining more of your own junk anyway. Got the latest gpu? Great, compile your drivers.
Enterprise Linux distros are awesome and the most painless Linux experience imaginable, as well as a great workstation experience too BUT they typically are among the worst options for gaming if you want a simple system.
Care to elaborate on ‘the risks of flatpak’. If you are refering to the practice of people using unofficial flatpaks: Yes I think that poses a certain risk because you are adding an additional party to your threat model.
10/10 this is the future of Linux
Totally agree
does an Atomic / Immutable distro use more disk space than say my Arch install? if yes, how much more? if no, I am moving immediately.
It uses more, yeah. But it’s not a lot more. You could maybe compare the iso sizes
I think i’ll be heading back to Pop!_OS for my main rig. While i like Bazzite, i can’t get VR to function on it, or get my 5.1 surround sound system working. I think it’s great for a hand held, but not for a main rig.
You might want to look at the ujust commands on Bazzite, they have some options for setting up surround sound and VR I’m quite sure. I have a pretty simple setup personally so I’ve never used those things.
Try NixOS. It’s not that hard to use. And also try Home Manager when you’ll be on it.
You might wanna rephrase that or some feds are gonna have a field day.
it’s also supported by Homebrew Package Manager so you can use command line shells outside containers without layering if you want to
I dunno, usually shilling something as hard as possible just means you’re a fanboy, it doesn’t mean it’s as good as you say it is.
I’ll wait and see until most people willingly make the choice to immutable distros before believing it’s “10/10 the future of linux” or whatever.
Personally, I get annoyed even on regular distros when there’s a file that I can’t easily edit. I don’t really see any of the benefit of immutable distros other than giving the fedora crowd (who loves shilling their OS) a stiffy.
I’m more interested in fixing real issues like having to prepend
prime-runto every game I want to use my dedicated GPU or why my IP can leak while connected to a VPN using my system’s network configuration.Heck, I’d be interested in seeing a fix for LUKS when entering the wrong password once requires restarting because something failed to mount or whatever.
You know, practical problems.
I never see the cons (excluding nixos) being that only a few desktops(eg kde,gnome,i3 and budgie) are offered compared to mutable distros
Why not just run a hypervisor and use containers?
I have a build like this for tinkering but to say it is slow and inefficient is an understatement. Very secure though. I can’t really see daily driving it.
