Source is this video:
Windows Was The Problem All Along - Dave2D
We could obviously compare performance between windows and steamOS before on the steam deck, or between windows and Bazzite on other handhelds. But this is the first time we have had official windows and SteamOS builds for the same hardware.
the gains come from the reduced overhead that linux has compared to windows
literally the next line
…the games here are being run through proton
I really hate the dismissal of the heavy lifting proton does. Proton is what makes gaming on Linux so great. So many native linux games perform worse on Linux vs their windows counterparts. Then again, I’d expect nothing less from Dave2D
I mean, yeah, but if Proton is doing an absolutely flawless job, then it has 0 performance penalty compared to Windows. All the actual gains still do come from Linux having less overhead. So, both are true, that Proton is killing it and that the gains come from Linux.
DXVK (which also runs on windows) alone gives you a huge performance benefit. Playing world of warcraft on windows I’ll see about a 30% reduction in CPU usage and higher performance.
Proton doesn’t just get you to almost matching Windows’ performance. Proton easily outperforms windows even on higher end hardware where windows bloat isn’t a concern.
While proton enables that, that’s still just vulkan outperforming DirectX.
So technically proton isn’t improving performance here, it’s just allowing the game to run on better performing systems (like Linux and vulkan).
It’s just Vulkan outperforming DirectX by translating DirectX to Vulcan. If you’re comparing the default experience with Windows and Linux, how can you say Proton isn’t technically improving performance? What would you call that if a performance increase is caused by running through Proton?
As pointed out higher up this thread DXVK and Vulkan also work in Windows (without Proton) were they give performance improvements.
Further, it’s perfectly possibly to run Windows games via DXVK and Vulkan in Linux without Proton - just use plain Wine (of which Proton is a branch) instead - and you also get the performance improvements (certainly that’s my perception in my system since I tend to get my games from GoG instead of Steam when available and thus run them via Wine instead of Proton).
So that’s at least two situations were the performance improvements are present without Proton, hence you cannot logically claim they’re due to Proton, even indirectly.
Logically the place most likely to yield performance improvements is the full implemention of a rendering stack directly on top of the hardward which even has its own architecture - Vulkan - since there’s a lot more room to improve usage of hardware resources at that level, though things like pre-conversion and caching of Vulkan shaders from DirectX shaders, which are done at a higher level (Proton or DXVK), can also improve performance.
It’s possible that Proton itself is delivering some performance improvements (for example, via the trick of, pre-converting shaders from DirectX to Vulkan before game start, uploading the generated shaders to the Steam servers and then other users just download the converted shaders and do not require that step, which should speed up game start tough I have at least one game were it actually can slow down A LOT game start because the generated shaders are massive) versus solutions using DXKV + Vulkan without Proton, but that’s not really enough to sustain a claim that the performance improvements are mainly thanks to Proton in the face of also seing the performance improvements when Proton isn’t there.
So that’s at least two situations were the performance improvements are present without Proton, hence you cannot logically claim they’re due to Proton, even indirectly.
Except these tests were almost certainly being run on SteamOS using WINE with Proton. We can’t know what the numbers would be with any other setup without doing it. Would a Protonless DXVK for WINE run just as well? We can’t know from these figure.
Also, Proton does not require running through Steam. I play Epic, GoG, and otherwise sources games with Proton not through Steam all the time. It’s also more than just DXVK. That’s a big part of it though.
No one is arguing that DXVK isn’t important or anything like that. They’re just saying Proton is a piece of this, which includes DXVK. I don’t know why you’re arguing.
I really hate the dismissal of the heavy lifting proton does.
What part of this did you interpret as a dismissal?
I also wonder how much of it is RADV vs AMDGPU drivers. Wonder what the result would have been if the Deck used the AMDGPU drivers instead. Saying it is just “the magic of Linux” papers over a lot.
I think it doesn’t really matter, in the end the question is, do I get a better experience as a consumer on Linux or Windows?
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Proton is incredible obviously, but by itself it doesn’t make games run better. Using vulkan instead of DirectX could improve performance, but presumably most of the performance gain is from not running windows in the background.
It’s a bit of both, along with the Linux AMD drivers being superior in many cases to the Windows drivers.
For every game that you claim runs worse on Proton you can find dozens that run better or at least as well as Windows.
Windows Gamers (who will never switch to Linux): Linux still isn’t ready for mass adoption
Windows Gamers (who will never switch to Linux)
So you accept that Linux is not the problem. We are litterally at the point where it will get mass Adoption in the next few years. That is what this post is about. That you can litterally go out and buy a fully complete gaming system preinstalled with Linux that performs better than the same system with Windows.
We are very close to the point where the only thing holding Linux gaming back is marketing.
Marketing and market availability are the biggest problems. People need to be able to go into any store, buy a handheld/laptop/desktop and have it include Linux without them asking.
Don’t forget educational institutes. Linux should be the defacto OS at such places. The younger generation’s first interaction with a PC is at school. If they are used to Linux from a young age, this is greatly help them ease into the Linux mindset (package manager, terminal).
Which is exactly why Google and Apple give free computers to public schools. Good luck getting them to turn that down.
That too, as well as in professional and government settings.
Even gamers do more than just game on their PC, though.
That’s fair, but unless what you do requires windows in some way (like, say, Photoshop), Linux tends to be better for productivity as well, if you learn it
But of course, I understand that it takes some upfront work and learning to change your workflow, so I don’t blame people for not doing it
i’m using photogimp and haven’t looked back, it’s surprisingly robust
Sure, but they are comparing SteamOS, which is a stripped down OS that does not have all the capabilities of a full Linux OS.
Just try using any photo editing software on SteamOS. Even ones compatible with Linux.
Most people dont use Windows because its compatible with more software, they use it because thats what their computer came with. If computers just starting shipping Linux then software will come.
I personally like using my Legion Go for LLM training /s
It’s gotten so seamless now, and wine has gotten pretty good. I can download a Windows executable, double click it, go through the regular Windows installer, and then have it make a shortcut on my desktop which will launch it.
Your average user won’t even know all the Dark Magics making it possible, or that they were supposed to have looked around for a Linux alternative, it just works
I’m still waiting for games with big anticheats to run on Linux. Until I can play Fortnite with my nephew on Linux I won’t swap over.
Battery Life:
Battery life doubled in some games? Now that is even more impressive than 10-20% performance gain.
Valve doubling down on Linux as the default OS on the Steam Deck was such a great decision. It obviously has given them a massive competitive edge. Windows has become so horribly bloated, and Microsoft has almost zero interest in making it run more efficiently.
Personally I feel what it gave them - primarily - was the ability to be independent of Microsoft, not beholden to them in any way whatsoever, and not having to pay them any license fees.
The fact that after putting so much work into making Proton and that whole toolchain amazing it actually turned out faster than Windows, well, that’s juat the delicious icing on the cake, from a commercial perspective.
Holy shit triple the hours
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max fps is mentioned to show that the GPU is running at maximum Performance
So I’m not insane. Monster Hunter Wilds and Helldiver’s II both run better on my Ubuntu image with the same hardware than my Windows 10 image.
Does that mean that Proton and Vulkan are far more efficient than Direct3D?
I think there’s in play also background activity from Windows’ bloat.
Probably this. Especially on low end hardware that doesn’t really have a lot of background resources to give.
Just open task manager and see all the shit windows thinks is essential to run all the time. Scanning the drive for viruses, downloading updates for shit you’ve never even looked at…
They say I/O schedulers on Windows are weird.
Edit: or was it CPU schedulers? I’m sure i’ve read something about this forever ago.
You’d think anyone techliterate would disable the bloat.
My understanding is that vulkan is generally more efficient than directX.
Linux Dev’s anti Sony bias shows front and center
/s
Sorry, what’s this got to do with Sony?
The only game in the main post photo where Windows beats Linux is Spiderman 2, published by Playstation Publishing, owned by Sony.
Ah, I missed that. Thanks for explaining 👍
Read the charts?
Notice any difference in the results?
makes a lot of sense honestly. I never knew the numbers behind it (tks for sharing). when I was ripping witcher 3 on nobara and then changed my OS back to Windows due to work related issues, I felt a SIGNIFICANT performance drop. the game became laggy, when it used to run top on Linux with the same settings. good share - the time for Linux gaming is now.
Valve won. Maybe it’s lucky timing, or maybe Gabe is actually a genius, but it’s only going to get worse for Windows as there is no way in hell Microsoft shifts resources from AI projects to make Windows better for PC gaming. Recently, Capcom announced that their PC gaming sales surpassed their console sales, and I don’t think it’s likely we’ll see that trend changing, and it’s also likely other publishers will make similar announcements soon (although idk if they count SteamOS as a console). The Switch 2 is coming out soon, but people already say it’s too expensive, and there are controversies surrounding some of their product decisions.
Will this bring about the era of the Linux desktop? Idk, but the era of the Linux gaming PC is inevitable now.
Back in ~2010, my first dual boot was an Ubuntu. It was fairly easy to run WoW from Linux and it gave me a solid >15fps while Windows ran at less than 10fps.
I was very young at the time but still aware that this was super impressive with extra compatibility layers. That definitely took part in selling Linux to me.
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The speed of Linux is unmatched!
Now what about windows 10 ltsc iot, the ONLY version of windows worth comparing to linux.
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I’d still take this with a grain of salt. Not many games tested, and the SteamOS build might’ve been tweaked and worked on more to be more optimized.
Does this look optimized to you, Windows side?
No, because Windows isn’t optimized for games. It is for general use, including games.
SteamOS build might’ve been tweaked and worked on more to be more optimized
What does that mean? Of course it was. Why would I take that with salt?
Well, SteamOS vs base Windows isn’t really a good comparison. Best would be optimized Windows vs gaming only distro, or base windows vs base distro
Best would be optimized Windows
What is “optimized Windows”? Windows is Windows. There’s no gaming-focused version.
gaming only distro
There’s no such thing, to my knowledge.
base windows vs base distro
What is a “base distro”?
What is “optimized Windows”? Windows is Windows. There’s no gaming-focused version.
Removing / disabling useless services, tweaking registry…
There’s no such thing, to my knowledge.
SteamOS sure looks like one. Gaming focused if you prefer. I’ve seen a couple on Linux, though I don’t remember their name rn.
What is a “base distro”?
Something like Ubuntu or Mint, which would be more comparable to a desktop experience like windows, ready for productivity
Removing / disabling useless services, tweaking registry…
That’s the opposite of comparable since none of that was done on Steam OS.
I’ve seen a couple on Linux, though I don’t remember their name rn.
“Gaming Focused” distros aren’t anything special outside of having some pre-installed software.
Something like Ubuntu or Mint, which would be more comparable to a desktop experience like windows, ready for productivity
SteamOS has all of those same productivity tools but I’m not sure how that’s relevant to performance.
“Xbox OS” isn’t any better, while the XBox Series X is more powerful than the standard Playstation 5, it still ends up being outperformed as Digital Foundry found.
So a specialized OS wins over a general OS in their specific tasks?
Amazing …
SteamOS is able to launch a desktop environment where you can do anything you want. It is just an OS like Windows, but better.
Cool, can you run video rendering software on it? How about some cli? Can you delete packages? Or even remove the french language?
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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If I had a trillion dollars, and no desire to add telemetry bloat to my OS, and I’m incentivized to compete in the market…
