Was recently banned from a whole bunch of DB0 communities for, as best as I can gather, downvoting once when I viewed by All (potentially accidentally while scrolling).

Important notes:

  1. I don’t use scripts.
  2. I don’t mass-downvote Communities. If I see a post I generally don’t like when browsing All, I may downvote one post, block the Community and move on.
  3. Some of the communities I was banned from don’t have any posts in them so I wouldn’t have been able to downvote anything.
  4. Of all of these Communities, in my history I downvoted one post in one of them. Voting in this manner is not vote manipulation. It’s quite literally a feature of the platform and as a mod of another Community, I would consider it pretty good etiquette.
  5. One of my bans reads “Appeal Granted, not a brigading member” but I’m still banned.
  6. I don’t troll.

WTF is going on here?

EDIT - Updated Info from the conversation below: In the initial image, you can see two “ban waves.”

The 10 bans three months ago stem from a single downvote in one Community. It was @Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com See here: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/34853477

I was called out by name for a single downvote and culled from a score of Communities I did not participate in by them.

The other bans from two months ago are from four total downvotes over a 10-month timeframe in one Community.

I have also stated in this thread that I don’t have issues with AI-gen images, but there are shoddy ones and well-done ones.

EDIT 2: Now unbanned from the ten Communities listed as “3 months ago” in my initial image, but have been banned from three more because of this thread with the reason given being “self-proclaimed anti-AI brigader” which are two things I didn’t claim to be. God dammit Lemmy…

    • Skavau ( Skavau@piefed.social ) 
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      It depends. If there’s certain types of content you don’t like that a community mostly deals in, you downvoting it effectively means you’re downvoting almost everything on there - and at that point, it’s just little more than a very crude attempt at community vandalism.

  • Luffy ( Luffy879@lemmy.ml ) 
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    Db0ero is explicitely pro AI

    I would guess the Mod has gone full shizo and banned you from the whole instance and everywhere he could because you downvoted an AI generated image.

    • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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      I don’t make it a habit of downvoting images simply because they’re AI-gen, but there are well-done ones and horrible ones just like any images. Do they really ban for simply downvoting ANY AI image? That’s… kind of a lot.

      • wizardbeard ( wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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        No, they don’t, at least not the site wide admins.

        This community is part of dbzer0, so if you were banned from the instance you wouldn’t be able to post here either.

        It looks like you pissed off on moderator of a bunch of comms and they banned you from all of theirs. Based off another commentor’s link, this seems to have happened when those comms were being hit by waves of drive by downvoting so you may have been caught in the cross fire.

        • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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          We found the answer (kinda)! It was @Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com See here: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/34853477

          I was called out by name for a single downvote and culled from a score of Communities I did not participate in by them.

          “Create more slop” is, in fact, a message I disagree with rather strongly and did downvote that (and only that) post. I PM’d the the mod in response to that post:

          Brigading is organized. I, a single person, downvoted one post I saw in /All because it is actively content with a message I do not care for or agree with. Bad form would be going through everything in the community and downvoting. I didn’t do that either. What I had done is called “using the platform as intended.” And you overreacted with a ban.

          So we’ve effectively solved the first part, but not the three Stable Diffusion parts… Those also seem to line up with another single downvote a month later. Again, hardly brigading or vote manipulation.

          EDIT: Huh. Looks like we had someone in this thread downvoting nearly every post in here.

      • moosetwin ( moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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        It’s annoying that the amount the general public cares about schizophrenic people is often less than they care about changing the words they speak.

        sidenotes - CW: R-slur, used non-casually

        This is common with a lot of disability-related terms, I expect this usage to decrease over time similar to how usage of ‘retard’ has.

        I am unsure whether [‘schizophrenic people’ or ‘people with schizophrenia’] is correct here, I am going based off of what I have heard about [‘autistic people’ vs ‘people with autism’] as I could not find relevant information online.

        • well most people with schizophrenia dont really consider themselves schizophrenic. it takes a lot of work to even get to that point of recognition. so you’re really looking for ways to destigmatize the experience of psychosis in general to encourage people to be open to acknowledging it and not worrying about all the social repercussions of being “crazy” and just be willing to find another explanation for the bizarre experiences theyve been having . unfortunately the very definition of delusion is that it persists in the face of evidence to the contrary! and to think that one’s beliefs have no ground in reality. it’s a lot to swallow!

          honestly the best way to phrase it would probably be something like “had a break from reality” or similar

        • SheeEttin ( SheeEttin@lemmy.zip ) 
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          The “person-first” formation is debated. Some people like it, some don’t. I think most people don’t care. I would assume, like most similar things, it was started by someone with only a tangential connection to the subject.

          • Muad'dib ( Muaddib@sopuli.xyz ) Banned from community
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            Yeah, the other way is identity-first and autistic people tend to prefer identity first. It does and should differ from minority to minority.

        • wizardbeard ( wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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          You said “banned you from the whole instance”, which isn’t something a moderator can do. Only admins can do instance wide bans, moderators are limited to bans from their own comms.

          It wasn’t unreasonable to think you were mixing up moderator and admin. Plenty of people did during the first reddit exodus, and still do.

    • Saleh ( Saleh@feddit.org ) 
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      It is an invariable aspect of lemmy though. It is open source. Anyone can make a server. The servers need to have a database for the up- downvotes and they need the info specific to the user, so it can’t just be said by another instance “heres 1000 downvotes, deal with it”.

      E.g. on reddit and any other corporate social media the admins can also see exactly who up- and downvoted stuff.

      • Vespair ( Vespair@lemmy.zip ) 
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        Admins, not mods. Enormous distinction here. And I don’t understand why that information can’t be anonymized or attached to a user identifying number rather than username, but I will admit I’m not a develop not a sysadmin so I am a layman speaking outside my field here.

        • Saleh ( Saleh@feddit.org ) 
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          As anyone can spool up an instance and become admin there, this information is inadvertently available.

          If it would be some anonymized information, it would make it more difficult to validate it. Again any server then could just toss around numbers without any meaning. If the numbers are static, it won’t be too difficult to de-anonymize them.

          • Vespair ( Vespair@lemmy.zip ) 
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            I feel like this is a solution in search of a problem. Has faulty or malicious vote manipulation via instance federation actually been an issue before?

              • Vespair ( Vespair@lemmy.zip ) 
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                One could argue this very thread and similar anecdotes shared are the issues you’re inquiring about.

                And I’m not out here asking for Lemmy to be rewritten, I’m discussing the topic. It is my least favorite thing about Lemmy, yes, but that doesn’t mean I’m disatisfied. I think mods seeing voting is less than ideal, but to be clear, I also think it’s fine.

                Nothing is perfect, and if that’s the compromise for the benefits of Lemmy, it’s an acceptable one.

                Just before this turns into something where people think I’m outraged or calling for change.

                We can discuss things in the abstract.

    • limer ( limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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      These comments are an eye opening experience for me; and I’m not sure I like that feature. It seems whatever the good it does, it’s open for endless abuse because at the end of the day, we are all human and petty at times.

    • Skavau ( Skavau@piefed.social ) 
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      It’s incredibly helpful and helps cultivate a high-trust culture. On Reddit, many posts get swarmed with downvotes right off the bat, no matter what they are, due to voting anonymity.

  • cm0002 ( cm0002@lemmy.cafe ) 
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    This was 2 mods that banned you across all the comms they mod, not a site-ban at least, though sitebans look like this too because of a workaround in place to ensure that a site-banned user’s content is purged (or something like that)

    It’s possible they hit the wrong button/inputted wrong script command hence the “appeal granted” thing. I would reach out to the mod of those comms

  • hendrik ( hendrik@palaver.p3x.de ) 
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    You’re a bit more easygoing with the downvotes than the average Lemmy user. Those rarely downvote, while you do like 30% downvotes. Maybe that triggered someone if you did something like scroll through a community and hand out several downvotes consecutively. But I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong here.

    • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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      There might be a misunderstanding… I only downvoted one post in one of those communities once. The others were untouched. As I said, some of them don’t even have any posts to downvote.

      • hendrik ( hendrik@palaver.p3x.de ) 
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        How can you tell what you downvoted while randomly scrolling through the all feed or your subscriptions 3 months ago? I certainly couldn’t remember.

        And the communities you were banned from aren’t necessarily the ones you downvoted in… That’s just the realm of the admin or mod who banned you. But they could have based the decision on other behaviour or downvotes of yours.

        • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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          How can you tell what you downvoted while scrolling through the all feed or your subscriptions 3 months ago?

          By looking at the ban times and then comparing to the (very few) number of downvotes I made on my account in a range around that period.

          But they could have based the decision on other behaviour or downvotes of yours.

          I hadn’t participated in those Communities outside that downvote whatsoever, so that would be doubtful.

              • hendrik ( hendrik@palaver.p3x.de ) 
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                Good question. I don’t know when Lemmy got the feature that mods can see all votes, but looks to me someone is agitated/frustrated or something and goes through the logs. We had some discussion back then about people doing their thing in their communities and then some random people aren’t even subscribed and do drive-by downvotes… Which is a bit frustrating. And AI is one of the many polarizing topics here. People tried discussing it in peace but it’s not very easy. Maybe OP got caught in the turmoil of this. Or they pissed off that person and then the next downvote was one too many… I don’t really know. And the person calling out people by name sounds a bit agitated. I’d say someone with that state of mind is likely going to react a bit more extreme. And they’re concerned with voting fraud and brigading in general.

                • I understand the mods frustation, even tho in this case it does seem extreme. I actually saw a person admit that they were fine getting banned for downvoting because there would be a “record” of them disagreeing with everything the community said. So some people are legit doing it on purpose to get in the logs.

                  Lemmy, man… lol Some here take this shit way too seriously.

              • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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                Not doing either, actually. After the post was found it linked things up and, as I explained elsewhere, this still stems from one downvote on the thread you see above. “Create More Slop” is a message I disagree with. Slop is just garbage generated content, not even intentionally made stuff. Just… low-tier trash. Not really into destroying the planet for less-than-shitposting purposes.

            • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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              Oh! That explains it! “Create more slop” is, in fact, a message I disagree with rather strongly and did downvote that (and only that) post. I PM’d the the mod in response to that post:

              Brigading is organized. I, a single person, downvoted one post I saw in /All because it is actively content with a message I do not care for or agree with. Bad form would be going through everything in the community and downvoting. I didn’t do that either. What I had done is called “using the platform as intended.” And you overreacted with a ban.

  • Hubi ( Hubi@feddit.org ) 
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    The same user quietly banned me from all their communities for being a “Zionazi apologist” (which couldn’t be further from the truth) and it took me over 3 months to even notice.

    They are just a special kind of idiot and I hope they don’t ever get to mod communities that are actually relevant.

  • passenger ( passenger@sopuli.xyz ) 
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    I just block the comms I don’t care about, can recommend.

    Including that AI generated low effort crap. I don’t get the point of sharing that stuff, when you can generate your own if you want. But nowadays I don’t get many things anymore.

  • I also got banned from some communities for “systematic downvoting”. I’d estimate I’ve downvoted maybe 5 or so posts by a moderator promoting a harmful diet, which was apparently enough for being “systematic”. The mod also banned me from other random communities I had never interacted with in the first place. But oh well, nothing of value was lost for me. Just kinda sucks that mods can use this to make it seem like their statements are less controversial than they are.

  • I’m a moderator on !stable_diffusion_art@lemmy.dbzer0.com, where you’ve never upvoted once, but you have downvoted multiple posts over months instead of blocking the community. This down-ranks submissions, adversely affecting the visibility of the community for subscribers, which is why you were banned.

    https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/28218497

    https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/35031819

    https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/38704142

    https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/44766239

    • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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      I don’t understand the thought process here. Like many, I don’t browse Communities individually, I browse /All and sort by New.

      So I am required to see something I like and upvote or else I am not allowed to an express an opinion in the community (or any tangentially linked community)?

      If I see something I don’t like (which is what the voting system is for), I should go to the Community it’s posted in and make sure to upvote things before I downvote? That’s the expected order of operations?

      If not… what if, while browsing /All /New nothing randomly appears that the viewer likes enough to upvote? Is that then somehow the fault of the viewer and they should then be banned?

      Am I interpreting your rulings correctly? 4 downvotes in the span of 10 months (judging by the times on those posts you listed) is a bannable offence? Seems rather heavy-handed to me.

      • Even_Adder ( Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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        You don’t have to like anything, but consistent downvoting like this without any other kind of participation is indistinguishable from targeted downvote harassment, and isn’t consistent with your claims of blocking.

        • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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          It’s perfectly distinguishable unless you’re trying real hard to misinterpret what I said. As a Mod of a small Community myself, here’s the difference in downvotes:

          1. Bad Faith Actor: Sees a post or a whole Community they don’t like. Goes in and systematically downvotes a bunch of stuff on purpose. Topics, responses… everything. Downvotes because they hate the community and everything it stands for. See 50 downvotes in your Community in one day? That’s these fuckers. Ban them. They are assholes and are vote manipulating. Probably ban them from related Communities for vote manipulation.

          2. Normal User: (–> We are here) May or may not comment in YOUR Community, especially if it’s image-based. Sees a single post that they don’t like out of thousands they see daily and downvotes it. Several months later, it may happen again. This is expected behaviour and is how an upvote / downvote system functions. Don’t ban these or you’re the asshole.

          3. Brigade Users: A coordinated attack to downvote or spam a Community stemming from some other place. They downvote everything and often post garbage. Ban these people. They are assholes and are vote manipulating. Probably ban them from related Communities for vote manipulation if not trying to seek an instance ban.

          4. Lurker: (The overwhelming majority of users are this) Indistinguishable from a Normal user in votes, but may not comment. May be an alt or bot account. Be wary. Check their post history to see if they’re real people. If real, leave 'em alone. If empty, use your discretion. Don’t ban from related Communities.

          5. Other: Downvotes accidentally when scrolling sometimes. These happen. May appear as a Lurker or a Normal User. Don’t ban these or you’re the asshole.

          Hope that helps!

            • Ganbat ( Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
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              Okay… but that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. By your own admission, this user only voted negatively four times over the course of nine months. That clearly doesn’t fit the picture you’re trying to paint here. If that constitutes brigaiding, that leaves no room for normal use.

              And just so we’re clear, I have been downvoting you within this thread, and that is owed entirely to the contents of your responses, as they’ve been conflicting, nonsensical, and overall harmful to the community.

            • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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              Just FYI, I’m not downvoting you.

              The bad faith actors should be somewhat easy to pick out. They are in my Community anyway. They often have scads of downvotes they throw out in a short time, not a few over the course of months. Dunno if you are, but if you’re using automation to ban, you may just want to tune it to be a little more lenient.

            • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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              Just one more for the road since I think the thread is dying down and I don’t like leaving things on a negative note.

              It takes some bravery to dip into a thread discussing issues and I wanted to say thanks for clearing what you did up. I may not agree, but I can understand it at least. It’s important to remember the human on the other end. Moderating can be hard, and so can finding the line you feel you should walk. Thanks for running a Community on Lemmy. Shit’s not easy sometimes.

      • Nah, feel free to downvote. But to go into that same community and just downvote every single post is not cool. Not only that, some people go to that same community every day to keep downvoting every single post. Regardless of content. And some, in my personal case, go to other comms I run and do the same thing, even tho they are totally unrelated posts and unrelated subject manner.

        I’m not saying you did that, but it’s happening so much, that you probably just got caught up in it. If you really want to get back into those comms, email the mod.

        • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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          Still nope. Geez, you are really dedicated to thinking the worst thing you can about people, hey?

          I didn’t say unfairly banned. I was confused as to why I was banned.

          I did downvote one post near the time of the ban. I didn’t look prior to that. 4 posts downvoted in ten months isn’t normally something I’d associate with a ban. People don’t generally ban for things that happened ten months ago. Especially since the votes were reasonably more private back then.

          It’s all one story. The same story. It evolved as I discovered more about what occurred. It’s called learning. Make an attempt to do so as well please.

          • votes were reasonably more private back then.

            Not commenting on anything else in your comment except to say: Votes have never been private on Lemmy. The have been made more visible, but they were always just an API call away.

            • Ace T'Ken ( AceTKen@lemmy.ca ) OP
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              Oh, I’m aware, but they weren’t as exposed as they are since 19.10 made them easily visible to Mods. It was MUCH harder to get downvote totals prior.

      • SheeEttin ( SheeEttin@lemmy.zip ) 
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        I don’t know why people browse like that in the first place. Of course you’re going to see a lot of crap. Why not subscribe to communities with content you enjoy?

    • remon ( remon@ani.social ) 
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      where you’ve never upvoted once, but you have downvoted multiple posts over months instead of blocking the community

      So am I supposed to keep track of random communities when I downvote stuff on my /all feed over months? That is an insane policy.

      • I feel like sending a PM would have been a more decent and human thing to do.

        I used to think that, too. But I sent a PM to someone about this very subject once because I didn’t wanna ban them. He replied that PM’ing him was one of the most pathetic things he’d ever seen in his life and said I was an idiot. Maybe a one-off.

        Ok, so another person was giving me issues and stalking me and downvoting everything I posted (I’m not well-loved on Lemmy haha), I PM’d them and said I didn’t wanna ban them, but downvoting across all my comms was in bad taste. He told me to fuck off and that he could downvote anything he wanted to.

        Lesson learned. Way too many people on Lemmy who don’t like your attitude or views, are freakin crazy. As in stalk you crazy. One person, whom I won’t name (and admin here knows their name!), would regularly write to admins with pages of “proof” about how terrible I am for Lemmy. And why the outrage? I voted third party in the election. LMAO

        Now I have no problem banning problem children without notice. The crazy on Lemmy is a whole 'nother level of crazy. lol

        What I don’t get, is why the serial downvoting? If ya don’t like a community, just block it. But some refuse to block and just go in and downvote every single post. It’s happening more and more.

        Not saying OP did that, but it’s happening. And we can see it happening because as mods, we are able to see the names of downvoters. Other people in this thread are noticing the same thing, so it’s not just me saying that.

  • After reading this thread I gather the following.

    OP says they browse all and if they see content they don’t like they downvote. They say it’s not a conscious move to brigade or anything.

    Some mod pointed out that for some of those communities OP only downvoted them, never upvoted a single post or contributed in any meaningful way.

    I don’t even see why OP is angry with being ban from communities they obviously don’t like. I seems like those are AI communities and when OP sees an AI post on All they downvote. Why want OP those communities keep being part of their feed? Why complain for being banned if they don’t like their content.

    It doesn’t make much sense to me. If I was banned of a community that makes a content that I heavily dislike and that I’m actively saying I dislike it via downvotes I wouldn’t care on the slightest. I should probably just block the community to begin with.

    If some of those communities ban are not AI content communities and the ban is thus unjustified I can see an appeal to uplifting that ban. And the reason for the ban could be a little more cordial. But I really don’t know why OP wants to get unbanned from communities they don’t like. Which introduced the evident skepticism that maybe (just maybe) there is an intention, more or less focused, of just trying to negatively influence AI communities without being a part of them. Which IMHO would guarantee a ban.

    I think general Fediverse etiquette is that if you see some place that does things that you don’t like that are both legal and in line with instance rule then you should just issue a personal block to that space, not trying to downvote it to affect their visibility or reputation, as other people may like that space.

  • remon ( remon@ani.social ) 
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    Haha, just noticed I got banned from 2 communities, presumably for commenting in here (they are both dead communities I’ve never been to). Someone is a very petty and now blocked mod.

    • You mean the admin who built fediseer and threativore and a bunch of other tooling to enable a better lemmy experience for everyone, and has run one of the most popular lemmy instances for years? The same admin who introduced radical recalls to allow instance members to vote out mods they don’t like, and encourages community voting for all new policies? Sure bro, if you say so. But why are you even here if you think that?