You can do all those things and also vote. So vote. Sure, votes won’t make the system better, but you can make it harder for the fascists to get away with shit while you organize. Vote.
Voting is fine as long as you are aware that it does nothing to materially prevent fascism. It can’t hurt anything to write something on a piece of paper. But the problem isnt really people like you. Its liberals who believe that voting is the be all end all of their political responsibility.
Electoral democracy is ultimately a misdirection. Capitalists are the actual sources of political power in western democracies. They unfortunately have a vested interest in the state getting more fascist and actually have the power to effect that change. So long as everyone looks down at the ballot box and then goes home to do nothing of material difference for the next 4 years, fascists will only continue to gain ground until they can do away with the misdirection of electoralism entirely.
Voting cannot be the only thing you do. Or you are effectively doing nothing. Which you seem to understand, but liberals do not. They actually want all other forms of political action banned. Because liberals ultimately protect capitalists, who are the real sources of political power. Leftist political action is a threat to capitalists. Thusly, liberals condemn it and recommend voting instead.
What I’m saying is that not voting is foolish, not that voting is the only thing that should be done. In fact I’m saying that other things should be done. We clearly agree, I just think it is harmful to spread anti voting rhetoric because while it can’t fix things it is still a meaningful thing that can be done with immediate consequences for many.
We do agree. I only said anything in the first place because I didn’t really see this post as advocating an anti-voting position. I would see anti-voting agitation as more along the lines of “Do not vote. Voting itself is harmful.” As opposed to “voting doesn’t work” or “voting is ineffective” which I see as more along the lines of criticism of electoral democracy and agitation for collective action.
He did in an earlier post posted shortly before this one, and the title seems to reinforce this. The image itself doesn’t.
title:" you can’t make the system better by voting"
image: “you can’t vote fascism away”
seems pretty consistent, voting is not going to make the US less fascist
One post implied voting blue was voting for fascism, implying you shouldn’t for the dems in the US. My point is that this is shortsighted and harmful. People should vote for the dems unless a third party is a viable alternative, they should also build up third parties to make them viable options, and they should also join political orgs and unionize, and do direct action.
Ofc more than voting is needed, but the republicans are causing more harm than the dems would have by miles and contributing to more voter apathy is not the answer.
The Democrats and Republicans do differ on the timescales for the social murder they promote, as well as the out-groups they view as acceptable to target.
I can agree that Republicans are causing more harm in the moment. However rather than blaming commenters online for rising voter apathy I blame that on the Democrats for their warmongering, suppression of internal opposition, genocidal ‘foreign policy’, and their utter subservience to capital when it comes to improving things domestically.
Voting is fine as long as you are aware that it does nothing to materially prevent fascism.
There is no such thing as preventing fascism. It’s a fight every generation has to win, no matter what government they live under. It’s always about delay so we can fight it again tomorrow.
It’s always about delay so we can fight it again tomorrow.
But delay can’t be all that it is, there also has to be something to fight for and some conceivable path to success. Especially, if your delay tactic demands also demands disowning any other tactics used by others.
I was saying this years ago but at this point: no. Fuck that system, I will not legitimize it, or the assholes blaming me for their own electoral failures. Fuck you¹, no, never again. Not in this system.
¹and you’re probably great! But still!
Are there any actual leftist spaces on this site? This place is as filled with libs as r/leftist back on Reddit which was always cringe. Need more active anarchist pages or those site’s version of latestagecapitalism to get more use.
may I introduce you to https://anarchist.nexus/
Thanks. I keep forgetting Piefeed is a different thing from Lemmy/Blorp so got confused why it wasn’t popping up when I tried searching for it.
I think you’ll find a few like-minded people there. and we have a couple good comms to take part in.
hexbear is arguably the most trans-inclusive place in Lemmy. Most people there are either Marxist-Leninist or Anarchist, and there is very little liberalism tolerance. People are also fun and make jokes about beanis :)
Lemmy.dbzer0.com - Lemmy Quokk.au - PF Anarchist.nexus - PF
All 3 are anarchist/left.
Than there’s the triad if you’re into killing innocent people with tanks.
Hexbear, .ml and lemmygrad are pretty great. It’s .world, lemm.ee and feddit which are filled with everyone too toxic or obnoxious for even the reddit libs.
Lmao this place is overrun with “Leftists” – what are you even talking about?
yes, it is overrun with liberals cosplaying as leftists, but on the plus side the admins don’t really mind too much if you shit on the libs, so long as you aren’t being a bigot while you do it. so even if there is an infestation of democrats, they provide the leftists here with amusement.
You spelled “tankies” wrong
for example, we have a liberal here we can make fun of. besides being a general shitty person, he also hates minorities and has no problem with his party being filled with nazi collaborators.
Okay tankie.
Anyone you disagree with is a Tankie.
I might be offended by that, if I thought you were educated enough to know what a tankie was.
It’s overrun with blue MAGA libs that attack anyone who refuses to fall in line with the Dem party. Just look at many of the comments on posts in leftymemes that are anti-drmocrat or anti-voting. Tons of these morons crawling out of the woodwork to defend them and spout their “lesser evil” BS.
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You spelled “tankies” wrong.
Chickenshit response
Garbage take.
Cry about it liberal
Okay tankie
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“If voting could change anything, they’d make it illegal” -Emma Goldman
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Reminder that “you can’t make the system better by voting” applies even when you win the actual votes. Chile found out when democratically-elected socialist leader Salvador Allende was murdered in cold blood by a fascist CIA-backed coup and replaced by a fascist dictator, and Spain (my homeland) found out when we democratically elected a leftist coalition during the Spanish Second Republic, only to have a failed coup which turned into a civil war in which Fascists backed by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy fought against the legitimate democratically elected government (supported only by the USSR while the USA, England and France looked the other way during Nazi bombings such as that of Gernika), ultimately with Fascists winning the war and creating a 40-year fascist dictatorship of which we still sadly live the consequences.
Chile also found out when that piece of shit bootlicker Borics won pretending to be a socialist only to immediately kowtow to the US’ every whim once in office.
Based on the voter turnout in the last US Federal election, I would say you COULD have made the system better (or at least not immeasurably worse) by voting.
Folks just chose not to.
It wouldn’t have made the system better. It would have delayed people from making the system worse.
The last chance to make it better was the 2020 primary. That definitely could have been a fulcrum if Democratic voters weren’t such idiots.
The primary on which the Democratic party deliberately, repeatedly, and flagrantly puts its whole arm on the scale? That primary?
I stg they could roll out Hitler and Mega Hitler and y’all would get pissy at non voters like they’re the idiots.
I can be pissed at the Democratic establishment for manipulating voters and at voters for allowing themselves to be manipulated at the same time. I’m just talented like that.
That’s what y’all always say but only bring it out after you’ve thrown a tantrum at non voters like the Democratic party is owed votes. You can’t be mad at democrats for rigging shit and at the voters for recognizing it, that’s just some cop out y’all been trained to give.
Y’all ain’t slick.
Who the fuck do you think I am? You’re presuming an awful lot, and nowhere close to the mark. Also, if you read what I just said, I’m not pissed at voters for recognizing the lies, I’m pissed at them for falling for the lies. Fuck off until you learn some reading comprehension skills.
said everyone sane, but not knowing how
I’ve read the declassified sabotage guides but people still have things to lose before they have nothing to lose.
Honestly, the fact that ICR just does what it wants on American streets is pretty weird to me. How have people just not chased them off yet? So weird.
Now is the time for performative action. Take a video of you standing a hundred metres away from ICE agents dragging naked children off to the camps, but like do a funny dance or something so they know you’re mocking them. The only way to defeat fascism is by politely teasing them.
The people who actually defeated fascism last time would be rolling in their graves if they could hear that assessment
I know right, probably all like “ughh why didn’t we think of that, what a waste of all that blood”
Yes this is a message I’m fully behind
The force of gravity has been already shown to take rights for us, when applied to the necks of the oligarchy.
You definitely can achieve some things with voting.
Serious question: has violence ever made the country better? Could you please list a few historical examples?
you’re white as fuck and straight as an arrow, aren’t you? nobody who wasn’t would ever seriously ask that question.
Hey, I am white as duck, but my shape is more of a boomerang…
stonewall, american civil war, anytime someone throws a brick at a cop car
I am impressed by the pacifist responses on Lemmy. I assume country means the USA.
Labor strikes have led to violence. Among the consolations were the eight hour work day for some and an end to some child labor.
The Kansas-Nebraska Act sparked Bleeding Kansas which contributed to the Civil War. The result of the violence was a change in labor relations for slaves. Owners had to get more creative at creating an underclass.
Historically illiterate and cowardly
