Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its fractious user community to live in a “big tent” after a Debian developer objected to the company’s sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its political position with regard to these two projects.
Hyprland, a Wayland compositor, is led by a “toxic and hateful community,” Beaupré observed, and Omarchy, a Linux distribution, comes from David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), a controversial figure in the Ruby and Linux communities.
This definitely had a negative impact on my view of framework, can’t say I’d buy from them again.
Same. Considering sending an email to tell them this.
Already have, along with my concerns about the outsized money going to essentially DHH events.
Might even sell my FW, I don’t think I want to be associated with the brand at all.
Which brands are acceptable to be associated with?
(I don’t own one, and I’m not familiar with what other brands are available these days.)
A great question. MNT would probably be the best answer - open source hardware to create open source hardware, uses the fediverse, F/LOSS focused, no venture capitalists/investors, etc.
If we go most ethical option right now, I’d say its keeping the hardware you have running. Framework is far more niche, which is where it becomes a brand statement more quickly than, say, grabbing a used thinkpad and dropping linux on it.
Edit: Just to mention, I’ve been debating getting a Pocket Reform for myself of late. I might build my own though with some changes, and just get the board from them.
I’m amazed that they haven’t backtracked this yet. They’re just cool losing all those customers.
idk, looking at twitter, there seems to be a pretty good number of fascist techbros who are congratulating framework on this
i guess framework doesn’t mind the change in audience…
I mean, its twitter. Its almost entirely fascist tech bros there.
Theyre not gonna, look at all the comments itt that are ok with giving money to transphobes
It irks me to no end that both here and in the framework community forum people will try to downplay just how awful DHH and their ilk are.
They’ll never say that they don’t mind supporting someone who’s transphobic, or a nationalist, or a racist. Instead they’ll just say that you need to separate the art from the artist, or that you’re just engaging in “purity tests” or whatever other bullshit reason they can throw to absolve themselves from supporting objectively shitty people.
In the current political environment, it’s profitable to have right-wing extremists alignments and they’re aren’t sigh, or even happy to be part of it.
If the sales fall, there would have been or will be a “southpark-sorry.gif”
Funny how that just keeps on happening?! Why can’t we have left-wing extremism ever be profitable 😤
Because left wing extremism is anti-capitalist.
Because if you’re out there grifting people for monetary gain, you’re not really a leftist.
Left-wing podcasts churn huge amounts of money, Chapo Trapo House, Cool Zone Media etc… Individuals like Ibrahim X Kendi and the BLM project grafted away millions of dollars to buy mansions and luxury office space with do-nothing employees.
Left-wing has no issue making money. Rubes come in all political affiliations.
None of those are extremist though 😔
TL;DR for just updates since the initial story: Basically say that they believe Hyprland cleaned up after having an initial problem and totally ignores all the stuff about DHH, despite that seeming to be the biggest problem people had with what they’ve been doing.
being antifascist could only ever be “polarizing” if the person getting offended is an anti-antifascist aka a Nazi
I think it depends very much on what you think is fascism.
Lemmy users sometimes think using harch language is “fascism” because they are young and dont know what real fascism was like.
That being said, I havent read about what the Hyprland devs have been saying or doing, so sure, maybe they are bad people. I will go read about it now.
Edit: I looked into it and its not fascism, as usual. It seems to be the usual stuff that is being called fascism when its not. Its all about how they moderate their forum and how they talk to people there. This is not fascism. Treating people rudely is not fascism. Making bad jokes is not fascism either.
They may be dousches but we wont have another Stalin on our hands from this direction, dont worry. :)
FW is giving an openly racist and fascist person money for a project
That’s what people care about. Not the moderation behavior of the project
Yeah but like I wrote, the definition of racist and fascist here is probably very stretched into silly levels. As usual on Lemmy and I guess other social media.
Just read the blog of DHH. It’s not stretched at all
Hitler.
Stalin, for what he was, wasn’t fascist.
I’ll admit I’m not up to date on the hyprland/vaxry lore – but I don’t understand the level of outrage based on this article…
I’m also not sure why the sponsorship of a software project is necessarily being treated as a 100% endorsement of both the maintainers and their alleged views.
I’m also not sure if infighting and purity testing will help the movement(s) right now. Once it’s the norm, sure, but it’s still a relatively fringe movement within the industry.
Edit (2025-10-15@20:14): At the time of writing my comment, I was both unaware (and uninformed) on the DHH side of this topic. While I still think the level of outrage is maybe a melodramatic, the push back seems more warranted than it initially seemed to me. I still don’t know much about DHH beyond Rails (and even then, not much); but from what I’ve seen since my comment, the response is more understandable.
If we deleted everything written by insufficiently pure developers, we wouldn’t have a Linux desktop. Especially if we count the ones that were smart enough to not bring up anything political in public.
Not a fan of DHH, but then you delete Rails then there’s no GitHub, GitLab, Mastodon, and many many other things given how popular Rails is, and that’s just that one guy.
If you include all the sketchy stuff that happens in the supply chain mining the minerals, processing, assembly all the way up to the final computer product, you just can’t morally justify supporting any manufacturer either.
This really doesn’t do anything useful other than feeling good to not support one of those guys. If anything it just adds extra political drama that feeds into a much bigger worldwide division problem.
@Max_P @stewie410 This is just wrong. Taking a stand against things like this causes change for the better in the long run. Rails will survive without DHH, like Linux survived without Reiserfs and MySQL survived after Larry Ellison. There may be some pain involved, but we owe it to ourselves to tread the better path, and make bad people just socially unacceptable.
See also: javascript and Eich
Ah, to live in a world without JavaScript and weird, Nazi crypto dipshits 🥰
As I added in another comment, I misunderstood the DHH element of the discourse as I, admittedly, don’t know much of anything about him – I’ve heard some references here and there, but that’s about it.
Taking a stand against things like this causes change for the better in the long run.
That’s also fine, and I generally agree. My concern basically boils down to killing momentum by sinking a company with (probably?) sane views on right-to-repair & libre as topics.
If the goal of a boycott is to starve the company until it goes under, because they made a move we don’t like – then that I don’t really like in this context. If the goal is to force their hand towards at least transparency, or maybe force NP to step down; then I’d support that.
The people who pretend that they can keep politics out of their life are always the people who are benefiting from the current political system. Nobody else in the world is so ignorant.
Definitely, but there’s a middle ground between “let’s pretend politics doesn’t exist”, and “you must 100% agree with my views or I’ll cancel you”.
Sure, but maybe that middle ground is pretty far from supporting people who believe things like the problem with Britain is that it is no longer sufficiently white and active steps should be taken to fix this?
The developers of those projects would have just chosen a different language if Rails never existed.
(Imagines a timeline where absolutely everything is still written in PHP)
Oh hell no
Þe comments devolved into flamewars, but it boils down to: if you take money I spend wiþ you and give it to people who want to oppress me, I’m going to stop buying your product.
Þe issue isn’t Framework using Hyprland or Omarchy; it’s þat þey’re giving computers and money - material support - and moral support by talking þose projects up in social media (especially Omarchy).
Þere’s a big difference between using FOSS led by a politically controversial figure, and sending the figure money. Especially when þat money derives from customers said figure openly claims to want to oppress.
Yeah, sometimes its not practical avoiding certain projects (see fucking JavaScript), but promoting and funding is a major barrier and red flag…
Offtopic, but whats up with the cyrilic looking character you are using? Is it to fuck with bots or something else entirely?
If I’m mot mistaken, it’s a cool character English USED to have for the “th” sound. Would be neat if it came back, if that’s the goal 👀
It’s the thorn character
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
Bonus: In printing, the Y character was often used as a stand in instead of creating a dedicated thorn printing plate. So places named ‘Ye Old Shoppe’ the ‘Ye’ is actually ‘The’
Þis is one of my favorite TIL for þis past year, and it’s all þanks to thorn!
Using thorn in English is a pathetic bid to appear smart.
I dunno, personally I þink it’s just fun to use. :3
– Frost
Weird way to say that you haven’t heard of yinglets.
if I dip a pH strip in my drinking water and it indicates my water is acidic, am I not entitled to stop drinking from that source because it failed my purity test?
Let’s not confuse “entitled” with “justified”. Of course you are legally entitled to boycott whatever you want, nobody seems to question that. The issue is whether or not you can be legitimately criticism for it.
Suppose that you had 20 glasses, you tested 4 of them and found that 2 were “too acidic”. Are you then justified in drinking the other 18 glasses?
The reality is that you have probably personally supported people who are far more egregious than the subjects here. Abusers, murderers, rapists, etc… Is your support of them an endorsement of their actions? Is your/societies providing medical care to these people an endorsement of their actions?
No. We can parse between what actions we endorse and what actions we don’t, because we are rational beings. Or rather some of us are.
it just sounds like you’re bending over backwards to make trans and racialized people drink polluted water. and you’re trying to convince the rest of us that the water is just fine actually because you have a reverse osmosis system installed (being cis or white)
No, I pointing out that the filters don’t actually work.
Transphobic and racist behaviour isn’t going to disappear just because you boycott it.
The consequences of bigotry aren’t reading mean tweets, it’s going to a job interview and having the prospective employer think “eww… I don’t like this candidate”. Boycotting is not going to fix that, because your purity test can’t even detect it.
I don’t purity test people because the reality is that most/all people have some harmful notions, it’s not productive or good for anyone to ostracize them so long as we can promote the good they do, and mitigate the harm.
- where the fuck did you see me advocate for a boycott? you just made that up.
Transphobic and racist behaviour isn’t going to disappear just because you boycott it.
- this is the only point I can agree on with apologists such as yourself. none of us have to boycott Nazis when shooting them is much more cheap and effective
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One thing I can take solace in is the fact that extremists tend to be too stupid, lazy and drug-addicted to even do the most basic revolutionary activities.
if we’re doing criticisms now, you’re failing to do the most basic of revolutionary activities by deep-throating the Aryan boot instead of simply polishing it like a normal quisling should
But it’s nice to see that you object to boycotting and instead plan to murder people.
I would never ever advocate for murdering people because Nazis aren’t considered people. they decided to abandon their right to life by advocating for taking mine away
You’re right, we should let it build up fascist momentum and then change it from within later
Tech companies and preventable controversies: name a more iconic duo.
The weird thing for me is the financial support coming from Framework to Hyprland. It would be one thing if Framework was working with Hyprland to test compatibility and functionality on their machines and do specialized bug testing. They could kind of justify that from a purely technical stance.
But the fact that they picked a very niche project for no apparent reason to support with a significant monthly financial contribution is so strange. There are numerous other niche distros/projects that aren’t mired in controversy that Framework could have worked with, (Alpine, Void, ElementaryOS, etc.) so why Hyprland/Omarchy?
Very disappointed. I’ve been pushing Framework computers very strongly for friends and family over the last year, plus I’ve been planning on getting one to replace my aging Thinkpad. Now I am going to hold off until the dust settles on this.
Omarchy uses Hyprland, so I guess they started by promoting Omarchy and maybe DHH asked them to sponsor Hyprland
Supporting Hyprland definitely looks like a mistake, they weren’t aware of what went on around there.
They probably should have gone with supporting Niri and maybe Cosmic instead.
I agree, but then why would they not retracted their support? If it really was an honest mistake and they weren’t aware of the situation, I would think they would apologize, explain that they didn’t know, pull their support, and issue a statement about the kinds of values they want to promote in the FOSS world.
But instead, they have doubled down, the CEO himself. It’s very strange and concerning.
Sort of.
They basically said they didn’t know about the issues with hyprland, they recently looked into them and to them in looks like hyprland has changed enough to be supported.
But, they were silent on the DHH. That part is the serious concern.
Yes, them not saying anything why they support that hiterlite scum is quite concerning. I think the CEO is just mad he got caught trying to startup a Nazi bar
It was a yellow flag when Framework invested heavily into an affordable non-repairable, non-upgradable desktop designed for AI developers. “Let them make money,” they said, as Framework positioned itself as a Trojan Horse to the ubiquitization of harmful AI.
This was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I was saving up for a Framework 16, but I’ll just stick with my Thinkpad and get the next Steam Deck for gaming. It’s really a shame that such an important company would support transphobia and white supremacy, not just rhetorically but financially, as Hyperland gets ₤600 a month from them and DHH gets ₤24,000 via Rails.
I know this will be a controversial take since Framework is so beloved, but that is just how I personally will choose to spend my money.
I agree with your conclusion and I abhor Framework promoting either of these two projects.
But the APU in the desktop has, I suspect, a real reason for having nonreplaceable RAM. If I understand correctly, they can’t achieve 8000 mt/s memory speed or the wider memory bus with replaceable RAM. And since that memory is shared with the GPU, that speed becomes important for gaming or other GPU tasks. Hence why 6400 mt/s seems to be the max memory speed for a lot of the zen5 desktop chips, at least in prebuilts
I have that chip in my laptop (the “AI” Max Pro 395+) and I don’t ever use it for LLM shit. It’s a very performant and efficient CPU, and shockingly good for gaming too.
So even tho I hate the “ai” branding it’s actually a very very good CPU and GPU
What I’m hearing is that Framework chose power over user-replaceability, and that really seems to go against their mission. The specs sheet on the Framework Desktop is something par for the course with another company.
I don’t doubt that the Desktop is good for LLMs and gaming, but that’s beside the point for me personally.
Kindof amusing to see people call “purity testing” on people who object to someone who’s quoted as being upset by checks notes a lack racial or ethnic purity.
[Sarcasm] C’mon everyone, can’t we just get along and hold hands with racists and other people who consider the rest of us subhuman? As long as what they’re doing doesn’t bother me personally you’re all overreacting and fragmenting this
nazi barcommunity!Edits: fiddling with phrasing :-\
It’s called the tolerance of intolerance.
I don’t buy from fascist supporters if I can help it. Screw Framework
The problem here isn’t that Framework failed to keep track of the ideology espoused by every major developer on the projects they contributed to or endorsed, which, to be honest, isn’t something I’d expect of them. The problem (as usual for a corporation) is how they handled complaints. Trying to sweep stuff under the rug in the Internet age just results in someone setting the rug on fire. If instead, Framework’s response had been “We’re sorry, we didn’t know, we won’t give money or free advertising to any projects this guy is involved with from now on,” the whole mess would have died down by now except for a few people grumbling about how they should do more research before sending money out.
its because tech companies are generally so out if touch with their userbase
I don’t support the views of the endorsed projects, but surely a better reaction would be to suggest alternatives instead of just screaming for outright dismissal? I keep reading that “omarchy is just a bunch of scripts” and “hyperland is just one tiling window manager”. If that’s the case, there probably are better alternatives no? Or if it’s as easy as described why not fork it?
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is not productive, IMO
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is
not productivehow internet outrage operates, IMOFTFY
And yeah, Framework is one of the few manufacturers designing specifically for Linux compatibility and repairability, and omarchy/hyprland Devs are apparently shitty people. If you think they shouldn’t be associated, suggest a different project not run by (possibly) literal Nazis instead of foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently… doesn’t seem that difficult.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests. They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
I don’t think we should work with scum like DHH and vaxry just because some asshole lib might accuse us of purity tests
If “not working with people who are maniacs who want you dead” is a purity test I’m dusting off my Inquisition book
The entire ecosystem is full of purity tests. You don’t have a CoC? Must be a Nazi! Don’t use the right license? Probably a capitalist! You use systemd? Must be a Apple insider! You don’t use systemd? Fuck off you troglodyte. Oh my you said “no politics”? Definitely a lib! What’s that 🏳️🌈 flag? OMG what a woke commie.
Everyone draws the line somewhere else. Just because you draw it at DHH doesn’t mean you’re better.
TL;DR;
It’s weird to be upset at people for having personal boundaries/morals/ethics.
Using “purity test” like a pejorative, because using a more accurate term makes your argument sound bad, is a bad faith approach.
You say “purity tests” like it’s some sovcit term imbued with magical powers, like DEI or woke.
Headcanon replace it with “personal ethics and morals” and you might see how some of those arguments are really just people having boundaries.
An example of what i mean.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
vs
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: personal ethics and morals.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
See how the rest of that statement sounds without the bad faith, magic-word interpretation ?
I’m not expecting any good faith arguments in response, so don’t worry, this was a just-in-case kind of thing.
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there. Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
But don’t worry, I don’t expect a coherent response. This was a just-in-case kind of thing 😉
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there.
I mean, yes… that is what i did… i explained as i did it.
Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
Was this a preface to actually doing this? is there a part of the text missing ?
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Yep, here we go. I’m a nazi now 🙄 This is exactly how you edge people out. You’re just the another flavor of “everything I don’t like is wOkE” but instead “everything I don’t like jNaZi!”.
Nobody’s in the middle. There’s no nuance. You’re either on my side or you’re an enemy. Life’s just that simple.
I firmly believe there are ways of being a centrist without being a Nazi. Hell, I believe you can be a pre-Trump-era Republican without being a Nazi. But there are also fascists who self-identify in these factions, and they benefit from the smokescreen of the “Everyone I don’t like is a Nazi” fallacy of argument. There is nuance. I can’t help but feel that you’re projecting.
Ethnic cleansing and its supporters are definitionally fascists though, and I don’t believe organizations should support those people. And David Heinemeier Hansson, like the Nazis, is a fascist. And I find it suspect and disturbing that people are referring to that as purity-testing.
I firmly believe there are ways of being a centrist without being a Nazi.
If your default is equating “centrist” to “nazi”, then I wonder what kind of experiences you had but it’s so far from mine that it’s pointless to continue this.
Not my default, but okay, you’re clearly bad faith. I’m done. Goodbye.
Y’know, knowing that you live in DACH, I can’t help but read this as sour grapes: if only you were allowed to be more fascist, but those mean old online communists just won’t let you!
Yeah good luck with that. The righteous left doesn’t want empathetic coexistence with alternative views any more than the immoral right does.
DHH has fairly normal right wing views. Nobody has been able to point me to anything so objectionable that should mean he is excluded from the community. The worst I could find is that he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British, which I don’t think is an out-there idea.
These inclusive communities have to learn to be more actually inclusive. It’s ok to ban him if he’s harassing people due to their political views in the Ruby community, but it looks like all he did was post some moderately right-wing views on his blog.
Not going to hold my breath though.
I don’t know anything about the Hyprland guy but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a similar story.
https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-thought/
If ethnic cleansing constitutes “fairly normal right-wing views,” then right wingers have no place in polite, civil society because they support a violent, genocidal ideology bent on destroying Western Civilization. How can we have empathetic coexistence, for example, in a government that forcably disappears legal non-white immigrants and sends them to labor camps via federally funded masked thugs operating in unmarked vans? How can anyone peacefully coexist with a group that only wants to make space in society for white Americans and is willing to achieve those ends violently and extralegally?
It didn’t used to be this way. Right-wingers can go back to peaceful coexistence when they put aside the supremacist and nationalist viewpoints and return to advocating for low taxes and small government without excluding entire groups of people. But make no mistake, the Right – the intolerant ones – have to change first. The fact that you think that this is “normal” is a chilling indictment of modern society. At this rate, in 10 years you’ll think unelected leaders, concentration camps and death by firing squad is “normal” too.
Thanks for posting the blogpost – when I checked this thread originally (and the article), I seemed to have missed the focus on DHH. Admittedly, I just don’t know much about him – though, I’m starting to get an idea why this blew up so much.
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I don’t coexist with people who literally want my friends and loved ones (and people I don’t even know, because it doesn’t really matter) dead.
Good policy, but where did he ever say that?
what does “London not being like 90s” mean to you?
Given that I’ve never seen you in the Ruby, Rails, or Sinatra communities, I’m going to guess that you aren’t actually part of this conversation. Also, you’ve been fairly obvious in your cryptofascism since this Lemmy instance was set up; you’re one of several users that have ensured that programming.dev has a fairly bad federated reputation, and I’m not sure that anybody really cares whether you’re included given that you don’t appear to publish Free Software or anything else useful.
you’ve been fairly obvious in your cryptofascism
Wow first time I’ve been accused of fascism! Quite riduclous.
he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British
Interesting choice of words.
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