Using AI for everything rather than learning stops working entirely once you hit upper level courses - I can assure you most people who do this beyond sophomore year will not obtain a degree, especially at any research-oriented institution
I half worry for society and half feel that as much as I feel bad about my coding abilities, I’m better than people who never actually bother learning the concepts themselves and fully outsource their homework to AI and that population is growing. It’s a low bar but more people are failing to clear it every day!
You do realize that the term “software engineer” isn’t regulated, right? There’s no test, no license, no bar/board. Unlike doctors, who are required by law to have a medical license.
I really don’t get the point of gatekeeping a job title.
There’s no official license or certification for software engineering in the US, so anyone claiming you have to meet some requirement to call yourself a software engineer is factually wrong. Now, pretty much every tech company calls anyone who writes code some form of engineer, so much so that SDE/SWE is a pretty universal acronym.
I really don’t care personally, and I don’t go around grouping myself in with other engineering fields. But for the past 7 or so years, my actual job title has had the word “engineer” in it despite the fact that I don’t have a Bachelor’s degree. I feel like jumping through hoops to say, “well, my official title is Software Engineer, but technically I’m a programmer” is just pedantic and probably more confusing for most people.
I could see an argument for differentiating between those who participate heavily in the design and evolution of an entire codebase (as opposed to those who just pull tickets and write code), but even that has kind of just evolved into the junior/mid/senior/etc terminology.
The P.Eng society is working on this, so that only actual engineers can use the title engineer. Software “engineers” should just be called code monkeys.
It many countries, like Germany, engineer is a protected designation, just like doctor.
The P.Eng society is working on this, so that only actual engineers can use the title engineer.
Which is why I specified I was talking about the US. Also, fair. If the term ever actually has a clear set of requirements, then of course it would be incorrect to claim the title without meeting those requirements.
Software “engineers” should just be called code monkeys.
I hope you realize how elitist this comes across. I’ve worked with a lot of contractors, web developers, etc. that have a strong understanding of software development and are able to author software really well. I would be so embarrassed if they knew I referred to them as “code monkeys”. Something tells me that you’re the kind of person I’m very grateful to have never had the misfortune of working with.
Labor is loved whether pool boy, math whiz, engineer or programmer. Do cool stuff. Maybe we can learn to love vibe coders some day.
Handstands are cool. I can’t hold a handstand for very long, but it still gets attention. Short handstands are vibe coding. Cool-ish, but not as cool as holding it longer.
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Using AI for everything rather than learning stops working entirely once you hit upper level courses - I can assure you most people who do this beyond sophomore year will not obtain a degree, especially at any research-oriented institution
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I half worry for society and half feel that as much as I feel bad about my coding abilities, I’m better than people who never actually bother learning the concepts themselves and fully outsource their homework to AI and that population is growing. It’s a low bar but more people are failing to clear it every day!
What an immature POV. A lot of engineers don’t have a science or math degrees
No, but programming is not engineering.
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Not having a degree doesn’t mean they don’t know math.
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Engineers use math and know math. That doesn’t mean they have math degrees. They have engineering degrees. Of which math courses are a part.
Moreover, most people with actual math and science degrees explicitly are not engineers.
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You do realize that the term “software engineer” isn’t regulated, right? There’s no test, no license, no bar/board. Unlike doctors, who are required by law to have a medical license.
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It is
To be more specific, in the US, it is definitely not.
They should. An engineering degree is literally a Bachelor of Science.
I really don’t get the point of gatekeeping a job title.
There’s no official license or certification for software engineering in the US, so anyone claiming you have to meet some requirement to call yourself a software engineer is factually wrong. Now, pretty much every tech company calls anyone who writes code some form of engineer, so much so that SDE/SWE is a pretty universal acronym.
I really don’t care personally, and I don’t go around grouping myself in with other engineering fields. But for the past 7 or so years, my actual job title has had the word “engineer” in it despite the fact that I don’t have a Bachelor’s degree. I feel like jumping through hoops to say, “well, my official title is Software Engineer, but technically I’m a programmer” is just pedantic and probably more confusing for most people.
I could see an argument for differentiating between those who participate heavily in the design and evolution of an entire codebase (as opposed to those who just pull tickets and write code), but even that has kind of just evolved into the junior/mid/senior/etc terminology.
The P.Eng society is working on this, so that only actual engineers can use the title engineer. Software “engineers” should just be called code monkeys.
It many countries, like Germany, engineer is a protected designation, just like doctor.
Which is why I specified I was talking about the US. Also, fair. If the term ever actually has a clear set of requirements, then of course it would be incorrect to claim the title without meeting those requirements.
I hope you realize how elitist this comes across. I’ve worked with a lot of contractors, web developers, etc. that have a strong understanding of software development and are able to author software really well. I would be so embarrassed if they knew I referred to them as “code monkeys”. Something tells me that you’re the kind of person I’m very grateful to have never had the misfortune of working with.
Then they’re not engineers, no shame in that…
Labor is loved whether pool boy, math whiz, engineer or programmer. Do cool stuff. Maybe we can learn to love vibe coders some day.
Handstands are cool. I can’t hold a handstand for very long, but it still gets attention. Short handstands are vibe coding. Cool-ish, but not as cool as holding it longer.
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