Wayland is a protocol, and major desktop versions like gnome and Kde implementation sucks balls…
Desktop crashes, oh there goes all my applikations that I started, gnome can’t keep up with switching workspaces because doesn’t fucking register the release key event. Fuck me dude xorg had no issues with switching windows or crashed barely crashed, gnome crashes 2 times a day. Oh sorry dude you want to use a custom screenshot tool, sorry dude, can’t allow that, have to do some weird workaround.
Oh you want change keybindings, no sorry dude can’t don’t support it.
Oh you wanted to automate window/workspace switching via scripts, you have inject fucking JavaScript into our runtime to query windows ids and state…
Jesus what joke of an implementation, it’s the anti theist of Linux. Everyone got fooled and allowed GUI developers implement the rendering backend…
And the best of all: hey do you want make software for Linux, sorry you app doesn’t work in KDE because the whole implementation of functionality you’re using is different from other Wayland implementation, can you plz fix in kde and gnome?
Tbh I dont enjoy any OS I actually hate computers, they are in the way of what I’m trying to do, it’s just an interface to do something else. But when the interface is effecting your experience to much it’s just sad.
So I don’t have to deal with manually managing windows or workspaces, or manually configure my desktop each time I have to reinstall my computer for whatever reason. I have a bunch of workspace profiles for x11, for what goes where. Im very bad at keeping my workspace clean and tidy and I like it clean and tidy, so I have to automate these processes, other wise it’s just a hassle.
Imagine that you are playing StarCraft by not using the mouse, and you do it quite efficiently, you have bindings and key combos for doing anything you want to do, and it’s just muscle memory that you’ve built up so you don’t even need to think about it. All your F1 keys to the correct locations on the map, all your unit producing structures already defined, your unit group keys already grouped, units get added automatically to a group. You know what group contains what kind of units.
This is totally doable in x11, doesn’t matter what desktop you are using as long as you can send commands to the X Server, because everyone is using the same implementation (with some smaller modifications) .
The state of Wayland now (I have a hard time seeing that it will improve) is everything is a workaround, and you have to spend hours trying to figure out how to do basic stuff, and sometime after spending hours you just give up. This isn’t Linux, this is what I except from windows or macOS. Linux is about customizing your desktop they way you want it to work.
I’m using gnome rn and it doesn’t crash much anymore. When I used xorg, there’d be crashes that brought down the entire desktop (or the computer as a whole) too. Also, generally every time I have a crash now it’s from using xwayland to play a game and having certain extensions enabled at the same time (although those issues seem to have disappeared recently too). All the other issues I either don’t care about or are supported with some extra work. For gnome, some of the issues are just because they have a phobia of exposing settings and you need to use stuff like dconf to deal with it.
Jesus what joke of an implementation, it’s the anti theist of Linux. Everyone got fooled and allowed GUI developers implement the rendering backend…
As you mentioned earlier, it’s a protocol. Implementation issues are due to how gnome/kde/whatever implemented their compositors. I think it’s pretty much standard for Linux given that stuff like systemd and flatpak exist. If you want to use something more traditional unix-y, maybe you should use a bsd or solaris derivative or something.
I still use x11 with suckless dwm, but for work I’m forced to use Ubuntu 25.10 gnome shit. It’s a sad state. Gnome owns all the process you start via gnome, that is why if gnome dies all the child process es dies as well, genius. Because the buggy mess, doesn’t critical errors and never will have…
I don’t know how you use gnome, if it doesn’t crash for you, fine, good. But that’s not my reality, it can crash because I open the laptop screen while being on an external monitor. It can crash because I’m screen sharing, it can crash because some software I used froze, it can crash for random reason (doesn’t happen often, but still annoying).
I think it’s pretty much standard for Linux given that stuff like systemd and flatpak exist. If you want to use something more traditional unix-y, maybe you should use a bsd or solaris derivative or something.
That’s a pretty toxic take, much in the way like Windows does things.
I mean the person I’m responding to seems to want a traditional Unix experience given how they’re talking (and given they use suckless software). Linux generally isn’t that, and it never really has been (or at least hasn’t for many years). If you want something more traditional, there are a bunch of available options like the BSDs. If you insist on using Linux, you can use distros that don’t use Wayland, systemd, flatpak, etc., but the support for them is lower, and if you need to use something that isn’t packaged for example you’ll need to deal with getting it working with e.g. systemd on your own. A bunch of software makes assumptions that stuff like systemd is now included if you use Linux. I’m currently using a distro without systemd and am seriously considering swapping back to my old one because it’s such a hassle.
Admitedly, i’m currently in a “take a step back” phase and like to see software breaking. It’s healthy for the linux ecosystem if things break.
And in software that is a hassle (usually Gnomes on a not-Gnome environment) either the software itself is really good and somebody made a patch or packaged a old working version already. Or i look for something simpler to do the same.
Desktop crashes, oh there goes all my applikations that I started, gnome can’t keep up with switching workspaces[…]
GNOME, found your problem.
I can take screenshots or rebind keys on KDE, all of that without session losing crashes.
All you are describing simply doesn’t happen in KDE, and GNOME is notoriously bad at handling crashes, so go complain about GNOME rather than wayland as wayland is clearly not the culprit.
Wayland is a protocol, and major desktop versions like gnome and Kde implementation sucks balls…
Desktop crashes, oh there goes all my applikations that I started, gnome can’t keep up with switching workspaces because doesn’t fucking register the release key event. Fuck me dude xorg had no issues with switching windows or crashed barely crashed, gnome crashes 2 times a day. Oh sorry dude you want to use a custom screenshot tool, sorry dude, can’t allow that, have to do some weird workaround.
Oh you want change keybindings, no sorry dude can’t don’t support it.
Oh you wanted to automate window/workspace switching via scripts, you have inject fucking JavaScript into our runtime to query windows ids and state…
Jesus what joke of an implementation, it’s the anti theist of Linux. Everyone got fooled and allowed GUI developers implement the rendering backend…
And the best of all: hey do you want make software for Linux, sorry you app doesn’t work in KDE because the whole implementation of functionality you’re using is different from other Wayland implementation, can you plz fix in kde and gnome?
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Yeah sure, if you don’t anything with it
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I use an Nvidia GPU with GNOME and Wayland and everything works great for me.
Yep, but my laptop I use the igpu
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Tbh I dont enjoy any OS I actually hate computers, they are in the way of what I’m trying to do, it’s just an interface to do something else. But when the interface is effecting your experience to much it’s just sad.
What is it that you’re trying to do then?
So I don’t have to deal with manually managing windows or workspaces, or manually configure my desktop each time I have to reinstall my computer for whatever reason. I have a bunch of workspace profiles for x11, for what goes where. Im very bad at keeping my workspace clean and tidy and I like it clean and tidy, so I have to automate these processes, other wise it’s just a hassle.
Imagine that you are playing StarCraft by not using the mouse, and you do it quite efficiently, you have bindings and key combos for doing anything you want to do, and it’s just muscle memory that you’ve built up so you don’t even need to think about it. All your F1 keys to the correct locations on the map, all your unit producing structures already defined, your unit group keys already grouped, units get added automatically to a group. You know what group contains what kind of units.
This is totally doable in x11, doesn’t matter what desktop you are using as long as you can send commands to the X Server, because everyone is using the same implementation (with some smaller modifications) .
The state of Wayland now (I have a hard time seeing that it will improve) is everything is a workaround, and you have to spend hours trying to figure out how to do basic stuff, and sometime after spending hours you just give up. This isn’t Linux, this is what I except from windows or macOS. Linux is about customizing your desktop they way you want it to work.
Unreasonably funny
I’m using gnome rn and it doesn’t crash much anymore. When I used xorg, there’d be crashes that brought down the entire desktop (or the computer as a whole) too. Also, generally every time I have a crash now it’s from using xwayland to play a game and having certain extensions enabled at the same time (although those issues seem to have disappeared recently too). All the other issues I either don’t care about or are supported with some extra work. For gnome, some of the issues are just because they have a phobia of exposing settings and you need to use stuff like dconf to deal with it.
As you mentioned earlier, it’s a protocol. Implementation issues are due to how gnome/kde/whatever implemented their compositors. I think it’s pretty much standard for Linux given that stuff like systemd and flatpak exist. If you want to use something more traditional unix-y, maybe you should use a bsd or solaris derivative or something.
I still use x11 with suckless dwm, but for work I’m forced to use Ubuntu 25.10 gnome shit. It’s a sad state. Gnome owns all the process you start via gnome, that is why if gnome dies all the child process es dies as well, genius. Because the buggy mess, doesn’t critical errors and never will have…
I don’t know how you use gnome, if it doesn’t crash for you, fine, good. But that’s not my reality, it can crash because I open the laptop screen while being on an external monitor. It can crash because I’m screen sharing, it can crash because some software I used froze, it can crash for random reason (doesn’t happen often, but still annoying).
I can tell from the way you write, no need to mention it.
No worries, I would like you to have it in written statement.
That’s a pretty toxic take, much in the way like Windows does things.
I mean the person I’m responding to seems to want a traditional Unix experience given how they’re talking (and given they use suckless software). Linux generally isn’t that, and it never really has been (or at least hasn’t for many years). If you want something more traditional, there are a bunch of available options like the BSDs. If you insist on using Linux, you can use distros that don’t use Wayland, systemd, flatpak, etc., but the support for them is lower, and if you need to use something that isn’t packaged for example you’ll need to deal with getting it working with e.g. systemd on your own. A bunch of software makes assumptions that stuff like systemd is now included if you use Linux. I’m currently using a distro without systemd and am seriously considering swapping back to my old one because it’s such a hassle.
Admitedly, i’m currently in a “take a step back” phase and like to see software breaking. It’s healthy for the linux ecosystem if things break.
And in software that is a hassle (usually Gnomes on a not-Gnome environment) either the software itself is really good and somebody made a patch or packaged a old working version already. Or i look for something simpler to do the same.
kde crashes don’t exit your applications, kde crashes everytime my pc goes into sleep mode and it preserves the apps
GNOME, found your problem.
I can take screenshots or rebind keys on KDE, all of that without session losing crashes.
All you are describing simply doesn’t happen in KDE, and GNOME is notoriously bad at handling crashes, so go complain about GNOME rather than wayland as wayland is clearly not the culprit.