- cross-posted to:
- mop@quokk.au
- socialism@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- mop@quokk.au
- socialism@lemmy.ml
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I get it but it’s semantics and the way they use it is relative. We need to fight for the things that matter and avoid petty pitfalls.
No, see, its not semantics.
What are these things that matter that we are fighting for?
Preserving capitalism, just you know, we’ll fix it this time, we just have to do (thing that is guaranteed to be undone by capitalism)!…
Or… not that, instead, identifying the instinct to do that as the entire main problem that causes or exacerbates all the other problems?
Its only semantics if you’re in full-on capitalist realism mode, where the apocalypse is easier to imagine than the absence of capitalism.
That’s how you get the Fallout timeline.
I hope we understand that the Fallout timeline is bad.
Smearing around the meaning of words is actually exactly how propoganda works. If you literally can’t even know what someone is talking about or means, well, then you basically just make stuff up willy nilly, confusion increases, meaningful discussion becomes more and more impossible, and the status quo wins.
Most leftists are literally pro-capitalism though, not in the idealized sense of “we want free markets NOW!!” but viewing ideal society as capitalism but with welfare (self-described socialist/DSA/socdem types). No matter how you rename such society, it doesn’t change what it’s mode of production in reality is.
Lots of leftists can’t even define what capitalism is either, which also puts their opposition to capital into question…
viewing ideal society as capitalism but with welfare (self-described socialist/ D SA/soc dem types)
Democrats, mob rule, is not liberatory: leftist.
Americans are illiterate fucks, no need to spread their dissonances.Imma be real, if you truly think that US are some backwards savages and the rest of the world is any better then maybe you’re due for a break from the US-centric news cycles who only report on what’s going on in the US. It really warps one’s perspective on the current state of the world, xenophobia and bigotry runs everywhere and it’s getting worse as profit rates and standard of living drops.
Besides, leftism as a term at first referred to anti-monarchist liberals. It’s an insanely large and diverse camp in terms of views, vast majority of whom are pro-capitalist but don’t market themselves as such since their focus is reformism and making lives better within capitalism like trans rights or “fair wage”. Actual anti-capitalists (i.e. communists aligned with left opposition who are vehemently against commodity form) are insanely rare and often don’t even identify themselves as leftists since they have very little in common with left wing of capital.
One quick peek at my profile and you’d learn super quick I’m extremely varied, global, and intersecting as most anarchists go.
leftism as a term at first referred to anti-monarchist liberals
By whom exactly🙃
Actual anti-capitalists (i.e. communists aligned with left opposition who are vehemently against commodity form) are insanely rare and often don’t even identify themselves as leftists since they have very little in common with left wing of capital.
I feel like you believe this is /c/liberalism@lemmy.world and not /c/Socialism@lemmy.dbzer0.com.
Could you reframe you scopes a little broader, as actual anarchists engaging in honest conversation? ’Cause anarchism is completely against all forms of capital: the privatization of goods, services, tools, land, etc… You don’t have to be furtherest liberating (Monarch’s “left of privatization”), and fall back into communitizing all means of production (communism).I am not your typical black anarchist.
This is a decent way to self-exclude yourself from relevancy in the political sphere.
Most of the global left is not strictly anti capitalist but rather advocate more nuanced systems.
Left and Right are relative, not absolute terms.
Left and Right were absolute terms in the Girondine Convention. It just got passed down on to us.
In other words: they are relative.
Absolutely true statement. Capitalism may be nuanced and politics may be, but support for capitalism is not pro-left in the least.
How about he Sherman Antitrust Act. It is obviously left wing to oppose monopolies, and yet it fit into and supports a capitalist system. Even communist China has significant capitalist elements. Most notably, in “post capitalist” Star Trek, Jean-Luc Picard owned a fucking vineyard in France. You telling me everyone who wanted a French Vineyard got a French Vineyard?
China is not communist lol
It is obviously left wing to oppose monopolies
Eh, it’s also pretty centrist as well. I think you’re participating in a little bit of category sleight-of-hand there.
Have we not heard of liberals?
See no true scotsman.
How?
You are just stating what classical liberalism. If this isnt classical liberalism then what is the definition of classical liberalism? You should look up neo liberalism.
Also liberals are hardly leftist since they want free markets and zero regulations. Your picture says so
You are just stating what classical liberalism
Are you asking a question?
Liberalism is inherently left wing. In this sense im referring to autocracy vs democracy and nothing to do with capital. Big L Liberals still sit to the left in many regards. You might find some classical liberals in the conservative party but that is usually found to be faux virtue signaling, like the libraterians.
I give zero fucks about people who identify leftist as if opposing the right side of a spectrum is some sort of virtue.
“If youre violet then im ultraviolet”
Markets free of regulation is not inherently left wing. Markets must be regulated. Liberals disagree. Lockean theory is not left wing inherently.
Ok just ignore what I said
I am not ignoring the screenshot you posted. Thats your evidence. Your evidence shows liberalism isnt a left wing ideology inherently.
Im showing capitalism isnt inherently right wing. The complete opposite.
I disagree. You cannot be a leftist and a capitalist. You can be a centrist, but I will never let you call yourself a leftist while defending private property and the military necessary to defend it. You don’t have the ability to argue with me and win because you lack all of the necessary evidence to prove me wrong, because it doesn’t exist because it’s a falsehood. Liberals are not leftists. They’re capitalists and therefore not leftist. Leftism is necessarily an anti-capitalist position.
