Something I’ve noticed in this community is that whenever I criticize Steam, or point out something I don’t like about the platform, I tend to get a ton of downvotes.
And honestly, I’m just curious why.
This is a piracy-oriented community, so I find it kinda interesting that Steam seems to have such a strong positive reputation here. I’m not saying people shouldn’t like Steam, obviously everyone has their own reasons for using it. Steam is convenient, has huge sales, supports Linux, has a massive library of games, etc. I completely get why people use it.
I’m just wondering where the line is for people.
For example, do you like Steam despite the DRM because the convenience outweighs the negatives? Do you see Steam as fundamentally different from other forms of DRM? Do you consider Valve one of the “good guys” in the industry? Or do you simply see Steam as a convenient storefront and don’t really think much about the DRM side of it?
Or maybe you actually agree with some of the criticism of Steam, but just think it’s being exaggerated.
For me personally, I don’t use Steam because I don’t really like having my games tied to an account and a platform. I’d rather have the actual files, be able to back them up, move them around, mod them and know that I still have them years later. That’s basically what I was getting at in that video I made about Steam as well.
But I’m not trying to start another “Steam bad!” argument here. I’m genuinely curious because sometimes the reaction seems surprisingly pro-Steam considering the nature of this community.
So what is it about Steam that you guys actually appreciate?
Piracy tends to be a solution to customer service problems. For all the issues with steam, and there are many. For the average customer the service is generally great.
Then there’s the fact of their prolific support of open source projects. Some great like KDE, proton, fex and arch. Some questionable like forking waydroid for lepton and not working with the original devs. And pushing open platforms etc with their own products.
Then there’s the largely flat corporate structure which also appeals to many on the left. As something to promote for others to emulate. Which yeah if we’re going to have corporations would be better than the extremely vertical financial vehicles of the bourgeoisie.
But there are lots of good criticisms of them too. Like enabling gambling via loot boxes etc in CsGo and TF2 etc.
Yeah see, theres a ton of stuff like that, that I don’t know. So its good that I asked here. I’m basically a fossile. (52) There was no steam on the Atari 2600 or Commodore 64.
You’re in good company here 50. I used to be much more into games 25 years ago. I haven’t really launched a game on Steam in months at this point myself. Between giveaways on Epic free shit on Twitch and Amazon. And the heroic launcher. Honestly I’ve got more stuff than I’ll ever hope to play. And not enough time or interest to invest a lot or get deep into a current Triple A game. I still have all my old physical media of course. And without physical media Etc piracy is important for preservation if nothing else. On a day-to-day usage case. These services do everything that most people need outside of preservation.
Kinda wondering if people here would be interested in my “Simpulator” game I made about 4 years ago. Its a sorta sandbox type game where you gotta work odd jobs to simp a camgirl its a whole thing. I’ve been thinking of posting it here but I’m new to the Fediverse so I’m trying to learn the ropes
Atari you were SoL if you couldn’t borrow the cart. C64 and other micro-computers had sneaker net piracy. Ahh, the days of going to your friends house cuz his dad just scored a bunch of software and just mass copying discs while you play on the Atari or NES is a core memory for me.
In my opinion, from a leftist perspective, the amount of yachts gaben owns kind of overshadows the flat corporate structure
We should definitely tax him more then.
I agree
It’s only flat below a certain level, there’s still a c-suite to which the majority of Valve employees are subordinate to.
Lets see:
- Good prices if you are a bit patient and want to support devs
- seamless linux integration nowadays - Proton is a blessing!
- DRM is the decision of the publisher - not required by steam in any way - and the offered standard DRM is so weak that it doesn’t really exist while also respecting you as a costumer (no hardware binding, no limited activations and so on - if a game has that, it’s the publishers bad decision)
- steam workshop is the easiest way to get into modding by far
- autoupdater for all your games (and mods when using workshop)
- integrated overlay offering guides and discussion forums
- steam input is awesome and powerful, while not being overly complicated, and also works on non-steam games (the overlay does too - opening a game wiki in the overlay is pretty handy)
- switching between offered builds/betas takes 3 clicks
- steamworks making multiplayer easy - rightclick your friend and invite into the running game
- discovery queue is a pretty good feature - i tend to run one or two every month just to keep up on whats new and up my alley
- creates a news and patchnotes stream out of your library and store follows, making sure you always are informed even if a game isn’t currently installed, for example when you are waiting for some specific feature / content in a game
- easy managing of your installed games with a good overview of used space and when you last used that 80GB behemoth of a game
- Steam inhome streaming is pretty good and readily available, and also enables mixed remote/local couch gaming; i prefer moonlight/sunshine, but it’s deffo more involved than clicking on the “Stream” button.
- Family sharing makes my library availabe to 5 other people free of charge
Don’t get me wrong, i am someone who collects game repacks in large volumes, so i am completely fine with piracy as it is. but i also want to give game devs that have created something special financial security so they can continue doing their thing. That means games that i actually want to continue playing after testing them out sooner or later land in my library, at a price point that i a) can afford, since i am a small time pensioner and b) that i perceive as fair for the product in comparison to how much joy the game brought me. My wishlist is primarily a “reminder to buy because they deserve it” list. In some cases this can even result in paying the full new release price (Baldurs Gate 3 e.g, and CP2077 - this has more to do with my fandom towards the pen&paper RPG tho, and i am happy that the game has evolved to something where i can say i am proud i paid full price)
I’m one of the people that appreciates Steam, but doesn’t trust it because their good will can disappear at the drop of a cent. There’s no guarantee they can’t and won’t go evil.
They don’t want to moderate the rampant Nazis in their forum and games you “buy” are just actually loans. If steam shuts down today, every game you bought is gone. So I’m taking precautions and buying from stores that do provide games without DRM.
Steam isn’t perfect and won’t ever be. It’s pretty, but won’t always be. I can criticise the bad parts because I’m not some fanboy cuck.
So I’m taking precautions and buying from stores that do provide games without DRM.
Same, although I wish I could simply pirate it all.
I already do for some stuff, pop it in sandboxie. But I don’t trust that entirely.
If steam shuts down today, every game you bought is gone. So I’m taking precautions and buying from stores that do provide games without DRM.
Thats not quite true. Depends on the game, depends on Valve, depends on the publisher. Either way its on my harddrive with backups, so its not like I don’t have them.
How many people do you think have downloaded their entire game library? Will they be able to go to the publisher and say “I bought your game on steam, give me a copy”? How many games would continue working after stream goes down (especially online ones)? How do you install individual games you backed up to other computers and other people’s game library?
If you played it, you downloaded it…
How many games would continue working after stream goes down
Turns out there are thousands. There is a wiki about them.
How do you install individual games you backed up to other computers
Most of the time you can play direct from the exe if they dont require steam, or take offline, or since we are in a piracy forum, you apply a crack.
and other people’s game library?
Why would i put things on other peoples game library or have any interest in those?
On a different note: I wonder how long a steam client could be offline? Once you play a bunch of games, you can go into offline mode and stay that way. I wonder how long?
It would be trivial to set up a linux box with all your games running, take it into offline mode and then simply image that. The image is your backup.
You already answered yourself. Valve provides a very good service and are very pro-consumer when compared to most of their competition. Even though at first Steam had way more cons than pros (without a good internet connection at the time it was mostly an obstacle to play Half Life) it grew to be a mostly positive thing soon and was a lifesaver when Microsoft was pushing for online subscriptions on GFWL.
You might find some pushback if what you’re actually doing is promoting a shitty company like Epic Games with their typical nonsense. If you really want DRM free games buy them from GOG/Itchio/dev’s site or patch the game yourself and simply share your happiness with others.
BTW, among other things, Steam Broadcasting is shamelessly broken since they updated the chat side of their client and they’re apparently not doing anything about it. Praise and criticism where it’s due, they can and should do better.
Thats what I don’t understand this very board is piracy, and no I’m not trying to shill anything. I don’t use any service, let alone DRM service. I’m a pirate, i leech shit and the cracks have steam emulators. I have never ever even ran steam, or any other such service.
I don’t think it’s incompatible. Piracy, or preservation and generosity as I’d prefer to call it, promotes game sales most of the time. If developers, publishers and storefronts make games accessible, safe to use and easily recoverable as is the case with GOG there’s little reason not to buy them as long as you’ve got the means. If they don’t and you got the know-how, you might feel it’s your duty to fix those games and help others enjoy them as much as you did, and I find that to be much more an act of love than an act of rebellion.
Well thats good, I’m not against that.
I think people tend to be naive about Steam.
I mean, I DO think that Steam is miles better than Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Epic and I would say they’re probably one of the biggest responsibles to make Linux that much more popular (both for consumer and for devs) in the latest years.
But I don’t know what’s gonna happen to Steam after Gabe Newell leaves. I think there’s a huge risk for a dramatic shift in Valve / Steam monetization and culture. Things are fine now, but that’s still a corporation, and shareholders will want to get the last drop out of it just as these shitheads do to everything else.
Personally i think people are throwing away money and freedom for convenience. but thats just my opinion so please don’t shoot me. I’ve never used any of those services, never used any streaming service either, i never game online (always offline against the cpu) and i don’t use music streaming services either. but that isn’t to say i’m trying to tell anyone here to stop using steam (although i did make a remark like that once), use whatever you like, its just me personally i never used it and never will. and i’m pretty surprised to see any steam users in a piracy lemmy, thats all. i wasn’t expecting that.
To be fair, isn’t convenience the point of money?
Yes, I could spend time to pirate a game and make it work. Or I can pay 20$ and have it working, while encouraging an indie dev.
You have a point there.
Steam+Linux works better than pirated games + Linux, and I would much rather spend a bit of money on games than have to use the dumpster fire that is windows.
I’ve heard rumors that Gabe’s son is being prepared to take over when Gabe is no longer in the picture. With any luck, Gabe will have imprinted him with the same ideals that made Steam what it is.
Steam does a lot of good stuff, and they remembered that the third world exists. It’s annoying looking at prices on other stores and seeing a game cost 10 - 20% of my country’s average monthly income.
As to your actual question - because most criticism of steam I see here appears to be rooted in wishful thinking rather than any actual logical consideration.
Can’t speak for others but they haven’t enshitified and I feel that their offering is fair. So while there are fair criticisms to level in my mind they are still more good than bad.
Just because Steam offers a DRM option doesn’t mean that it’s mandatory:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_SteamThats interesting, see, I wasn’t aware of this at all. I’m so glad I joined the Fediverse. I’m basically getting a 20 year massive brain update overhaul in weeks.
GOG’s whole “thing” is having games be DRM-free.
Even Epic has a decent number of DRM-free games: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Epic_Games_Store
And PC Xbox is just in the corner eating DRM paint chips.
I very much am of the opinion that piracy is a usability & accessibility issue. I believe that if someone spends a lot of time on a quality product that I very much enjoy, I should pay for it. Even from a completely selfish point of view, if I never pay, the gaming industry will be based solely on the dummies that don’t know how to pirate properly, and will thus be filled to the brim with trash. I’m not going to do moral grandstanding on a piracy subreddit if people disagree, this is my personal view. I remember not having any money. I still don’t have much really but enough to support some of the creators I like. I still pirate some games that I may enjoy, but do not want to support the terrible corporations that churn them out.
Steam is one of the best ways to buy games in existence. Would I prefer them to not have DRM? Sure. Would I prefer a few other things, like not allowing third party launchers, kernel level anti-cheat, or any Ai generate content? Sure. But the fact remains, they’re one of the last companies that seem to remember UX matters. They also are dumping money into rapidly improving Linux as a whole, especially for gaming. If they were not so good, I would not give them money. It is really as simple as that.
Your 2nd paragraph sounds just like GOG ! I tend whenever possible to get my games from GOG than Steam.
After their recent Nazi symbolism affair I’m not really feeling like spending any money there.
They knowingly used runes associated with Nazism in a promotional newsletter in a manner that only Nazis are using them - and they knew they were doing this, because this e-mail was deliberately not sent to users who had set their account to German; this kind of thing is illegal in Germany. If you had set your account to English, you still received the mail, even if you were in Germany. What followed was a dishonest non-apology, while the developer of the game they were promoting was utterly befuddled why gog had done this to their title.
I know, and it’s heartbreaking. To be honest I pirate sometimes their binaries for conservation. If the dev deserves it, I buy it later. I think it rewards them more money than Steam at least.
I do like GOG, but it’s not an alternative, more an addendum. It is mostly for old games re-optimized/made playable for modern hardware. New games sometimes come out there, but not with any regularity.
There are new-ish titles ! But i agree that their main selling point is long conservation repacking. No DRM packs that can linger on drives or clouds forever and it should still work as long as the OS allows it.
Because it too frequently props up opposing platforms who are objectively worse for customers as a comparison, and turns out to be Tim Sweeney in a mask. One monopoly’s existence doesn’t justify introducing competitors with worse business models just so their CEO can get their cut of the middleman action. I care about outcomes for end users, and most of the complaints I see about steam aren’t reflective of my lived experience with the platform, nor are they accompanied by actual ideas for improving the model.
It’s a convenient storefront and discovery system (too an extent). Some games I play rely on its backend services. It’s never screwed me over or antagonized me. They also have really good Linux support without having to think to hard about it. They’ve done a huge amount of work on that front that would still even fit me even if I stoped using steam and I do legitimately appreciate that. I kind of get the feeling that the hardware was an excuse to do Linux support, like it seems to me that people there want Linux to be a viable gaming platform even if the business case is pretty niche.
I don’t like that I don’t own the games, I don’t like the DRM, but there isn’t really an alternative on that front, except for GOG but they generally don’t have the games I’m interested in, which are normally smaller niche titles in categories that GOG isn’t focused on. The fact that they have a majority market share makes me nervous about them getting sold or going public and their practices changing. But them being the biggest kid on the block seems like a net positive given that the people liable to take their place are so hostile to consumers. Like the biggest critics of valve from within the industry (Tim Sweeney for instance) seem like they’re just angry that don’t get to be steam but more consumer hostile.
I’m not going to defend everything they’ve done, I’m not going to say they’re without sin, but the biggest issues with them are universal to the entire industry.
The DRM on steam means that games actually get released on Steam. The value they provide for me is that I can play multiplayer games with my friends on my OS of choice.
The DRM thing is a non issue for me. If I want to own the game forever, I will just pirate it. GOG as an example - I like the idea but in practice, there are hardly any games I’m interested in on there.
So I just take things into my own hands. Buy the game on Steam if it’s the right price and for the convenience. Pirate it in 10 years if it ever gets removed from Steam and I want to play it again.
Well, you do also support the creators that way I guess.
My guess after doing some self-reflection as a Steam customer… Because there aren’t really any truly comparable alternatives, so until that becomes the case people with thousands of dollars of game licenses in Steam are paranoid about the idea of needless exodus away from the platform, as they don’t know how secure their purchases would be in the long term under that scenario. Competition risks stability. So they kneejerk downvote criticisms out of that paranoia. I think it’s far more that investment self-interest emotion than say, fanboyism of Valve.
And thats the biggest objection I have with it: You don’t truly have ownership. You’re basically just “renting”. Again, thats just my opinion and how I feel about it, please don’t hate me for it.
Oh I don’t hate you at all! I actually agree with you, if the DRM-free software or license isn’t actually in your possession, you really don’t have security of ownership.
My goal is to support developers. Not to own a game. If I just wanted to play i would pirate. Download it and store the game files on my backups. I had a collection of CDs to install games from and I don’t even own a CD ROM anymore. Steam is a delivery system that allows me to sync my saves and support developers. That’s about it.
Most folks have already hit the highlights like Linux support, customer service, pricing, etc. another I haven’t seen is the toolkit for devs and server hosts. I host a ton of game servers, and for most steam games it really is a trivial cookie cutter application of steamcmd to get a Linux dedicated server up and going. And because the devs built for the platform, the admin features all often use simple steam IDs for game permissions, making it easy to manage that functionality as well with a group of friends.
Basically, a ton of things just work consistently. Not to mention the pricing and early access fosters a lot of creativity. And my barotrauma, enshrouded, ut2004, TTT, prop hunt, vrising, etc servers are all basically an identical launch config with a slightly different appid and it all just works.
You don’t get that from the pirated versions or from gog generally.
I have a steam deck and play on pc too, and steam sync it’s really convenient. And i like how after i finish a game, I can delete it to save space, then come back 2 years later and my save files will still be in the cloud, without me thinking about it too hard
Yes, I know there’s syncthing, and I use it to sync save files of 1 game, but urghh it’s complex to set up
