Hi,
I will be writing petition to my government (Poland) to try to get them to ban Windows at schools. I believe it should be illegal to force children to use systems that are paid and use children’s data for AI and advertising.
Maybe you will do it as well? Let’s end this insane practice.
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I wouldn’t “ban Windows at school” as a whole but I would:
- ban schools from installing windows in school computers
- teachers and students can still use it on their own computers, if they want
- ban teachers from requiring windows-only software
- regardless of what you use at school, teachers would often require MS office or Adobe for homework, which would force students to use windows at home
Fully agree.
- ban schools from installing windows in school computers
While I agree with the petition, it shouldn’t be limited to Windows, it should be about software freedom…
Yes, macOS should also count
That actually makes a lot of sense, if you remove concepts such as “but Windows is already customary here” from your head. From scratch, you’d never want to do this.
If such a petition exists for the Netherlands or EU-wide, I’d sign and subscribe/support.
I agree with Stallman and others on this sort of thing, it should be illegal for any public institution to use proprietary, corporate software in any capacity.
Public institutions are supposed to serve and benefit the public good first and foremost. The idea that they can do that equally well or better by partnering with mega-corps who’s only fundamental drive is to generate as much profit as possible for their shareholders, is idiotic.
Fuck it, rant time.
I was IT lead at an education trust (kinda like a school district but bigger) covering K-21 for a long time, managing a few thousand endpoints for a few thousand students. Laptops, desktops, tablets, smartphones, digital signage and embedded; devices belonging to schools, partner organisations, staff BYOD and student remote learning; structured IT suites in school campuses, stateless networks for anything portable, antique appliances that simply must work but also be accessible to particular people from anywhere; it goes on and it never ends.
No-one has time for that.
From a few central interfaces, I could deploy an application to every device. And, I could make sure that a particular website was accessible to every student from their fifteenth birthday, not a day before. And, I could make sure that any device a Ukrainian refugee logs into speaks Ukrainian. And, I could remove any bloatware. And, I could make sure that when a brand new laptop is drop-shipped to a teacher’s home address directly from the distributor it will automatically configure itself with everything they need the second they connect it to their home Wifi without me even having to touch it. And, I could apply a photo-of-the-month to every device, even overlaying it with the appropriate school’s logo. And I could disable (or force enable) any unwanted hardware or software features on any device. And I could make sure that every student’s web traffic was appropriately filtered and, if nessecary, scrutinised.
And I could prove that all of it was working: I could prove it to staff, to parents, to governors and, when it came to it, I could prove it to the police and to lawyers. “When”, not “if”.
Forget schools for a second, look instead at big corporations. They are ruthlessly profit focused, but they all run Windows, Office, SharePoint, 365, etc because even though it costs money, it’s cheaper overall and comes with a lot of protection, both technical and legal. Schools get that stuff basically for free, and it just works. Linux isn’t there yet, not by a long shot, and no education authority worth their salt is going to take the risk of being the first to experiment with their student’s wellbeing, let alone curriculum, for effectively - in their eyes - zero benefit.
To be blunt: when one of the children you are responsible for safeguarding is the victim of an attempted kidnapping that was only possible because of lax data security, no-one is going to have any tolerance for your personal philosophy about software licensing or your home-spun scripts. Ask me how I know.
Also, if your schools are letting advertisers/social media/whatever inspect student’s data, that’s nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with mismanagement: forcing them to manage yet another OS isn’t going to fix that.
TLDR: If you want to make Linux replace Windows in schools, you first need to figure out how to make Linux replace Windows in hospitals, call centres and Fortune 500 corporations.
FOSS geeks are incapable of grasping why industry standards are industry standards. They genuinely believe that all major orgs only use Windows because they’ve been bribed/tricked into using it.
Linux isn’t there yet, not by a long shot, and no education authority worth their salt is going to take the risk of being the first to experiment with their student’s wellbeing, let alone curriculum, for effectively - in their eyes - zero benefit.
This is the crux of your ramble and it’s nonsense.
The reason orgs use these tools is productivity, not the well-being of the students. To conflate the two is to admit you’re a lackey of capitalism.
If the orgs cared about student well-being, they wouldn’t be training them on proprietary systems and letting corpos harvest their data. Period.
That seems like a severe over-engineering.
Good luck!
You may already be aware but perhaps some of the rationale from these projects could help bolster your argument:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/petition/content/html?petitionNumber=0729%2F2024
Thanks! I will use it 😃
I would also ban Ai in schools. Some teachers force the children to use Ai.
I’d start by banning tablets, what the fuck is the point of “learning” IT stuff on a glorified 10 inch phone? Get them fucking laptops, even better with Linux, but I feel like even going BACK to Windows PCs would be an improvement at this point, sad.
One big thing you need to think about is accessibility. This is something that came up in a conversation with a local representative in the UK - for children in public schools it is a requirements that any technology have good accessibility and not leave anyone behind. And accessibility tools on linux are, suffice to say, not great. Especially when compared with those on other closed systems. My local government ended up going with iPads for kids in schools, and the accessibility tooling on these was a factor in that choice.
I was thinking this 20+ years ago and it makes me sad that Windows is still treated like a product worth using. My work machine is my most hated device in terms of software. Such garbage.
In the US we have a law that says we must keep student records confidential. Yet at my school our email for both faculty and students is provided by TinyFlaccid. I know for a fact that they are scanning and indexing all of that email because that’s the only way they could make reply suggestions. They also have copilot enabled and there is no way to turn it off.
I’m not commenting to pick on you but because I think it’s really important that people understand the details of laws so that they can make informed choices. People often think they have more rights or protections than they do, and they might not make the same choices if they knew otherwise.
If you are referring to FERPA, the decision about whether an email is an education record depends on the content and the context for which it is used. I don’t think it would hold that all emails from an educational account are educational records. ( https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/a-reminder-that-emails-may-be-education-records )
From the above and specific to whether an email itself can be a record (when there was a paper copy on file)
The court held the electronic messages themselves were not “education records” for purposes of FERPA because, while they related to the student, they were not “maintained” by the educational institution.
(Please note: “the decision was unpublished and therefore cannot be cited.”)
Getting a little more specific: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-34/subtitle-A/part-99/subpart-D/section-99.31
An educational agency or institution may disclose personally identifiable information from an education record of a student without the consent required by § 99.30 if the disclosure meets one or more of the following conditions:
B) A contractor, consultant, volunteer, or other party to whom an agency or institution has outsourced institutional services or functions may be considered a school official under this paragraph provided that the outside party—
(1) Performs an institutional service or function for which the agency or institution would otherwise use employees;
(2) Is under the direct control of the agency or institution with respect to the use and maintenance of education records; and
(3) Is subject to the requirements of § 99.33(a) governing the use and redisclosure of personally identifiable information from education records.
So having access to and using the information in the emails is not necessarily a violation so long as the personally identifiable information is not redisclosed.
Schools have a duty to ensure that the access is for “legitimate educational interests” which is subjective but I could see email tools or copilot being argued as meeting that.
I guess we won’t know until someone challenges it 😉
I’m aware of all of that, but wasn’t looking to write a novel about it.
I am of the opinion that feeding students’ information to AI and to advertising algorithms is not a legitimate educational purpose. Particularly when hosting your own email that doesn’t do that is so trivially simple.
ETA: btw, my nickname is potateo. You could say that’s an arcane spelling of potato!
Having worked at an email provider before, I can assure you that hosting your own email is not, as you put it, “trivially simple.” The number of spam filters that sit between every server is insane, and they’re all controlled by third parties that, almost universally, deem any server hosted on a residential IP address block to be spam. Even medium-sized commercial providers get blacklisted every so often and have to appeal to the filter providers to get back in business. Hosting it yourself is almost guaranteed to mean that nobody ever gets your emails.
The problems you’re talking about are not problems of hosting email. Hosting email is trivially simple.
The anticompetitive practices of big tech have to be dealt with a different way. Requiring all schools to host their own email would go a very long way to ending one of those practices. You would see the opaque, unresponsive spam filterers disappear overnight.
In the US they use Chromebooks, not really any better but they do have Linux under the hood.
Not letting sunlight into classrooms seems cruel to the children.
It’s necessary in the US to make it harder for the shooters
That’s funny. I laughed. Then quickly remembered my kids are entering the school system soon. Then I thought this was a pretty good idea. Now I’m sad.
We need a new distro called skylight.
I wouldn’t worded as “ban windows” (monkey hand they give the ipads), but as implement Linux on the curriculum
I disagree. While it would be correct in some way, it would be a different political movement.
With “let’s introduce Linux”, it’s easy to stop mid-way and too early. For example, at 1 hour per week for 1 semester once during the whole school.
With “ban Windows [from school computers and as mandatory software]”, the political agenda is clear and the technical goal is clear. And the benefit is clear, too.
Go for it, but please consider the platform you use for that carefully and get as many partners as possible beforehand - gives much bigger chances it reaches more people.
Pracowałem przy kampaniach społecznych, w razie czego służę doświadczeniem.
