Too many tankies. All of them saying people shouldn’t vote, while offering no solution and celebrating Russia as a good country.
Too many tankies. All of them saying people shouldn’t vote, while offering no solution and celebrating Russia as a good country.
When you’re talking about toxicity, there are a couple different areas that manifests in written content. One is toxic behavior, i.e. how you convey your ideas, and another is what you say, i.e. the ideas themselves.
Moderating out toxic behavior is much easier, in that someone being actively rude or advocating direct harm or prejudice is often fairly cut-and-dry. Moderating out toxic beliefs is much harder, because that requires setting a baseline of what constitute a toxic belief in the first place (and even beyond that, an unacceptable to express toxic belief).
To me, neoliberalism is a toxic belief system that is either too feckless to oppose rightwing authoritarianism, or largely complicit in the desired outcomes without wanting to admit it. But I don’t want every neoliberal “centrist” banned from Beehaw, I want to (when politics does come up), actually point out the issues with their beliefs. Same for tankies; I have (as you can check my comments to see) had a lot of fun explaining how Lenin bastardized Marxism and how they’re just Statists who don’t like the name.
Nazism and other rightwing “belief systems” have harming others at the core of their structures. As misguided as it is, Marxist-Leninism doesn’t. I think that’s at least a clear enough line to draw in my mind for why they merit different treatment.
Nazism and Tankies have echo chamber tendancies, bot infiltration tendencies, brigading, and most importantly are belief systems that are based on the destruction of society. Fascism is detrimental to society, and giving fascists a voice leads to the spread of fascism.
Lemmy.ml gives off similar energy to r/the_Donald 2016ish era. It didn’t seem that serious, it was memes. And at first no one though r/the_Donald was a sub for MAGAts, they thought it was to dunk on Trump. Then it became serious Trump supporters and brigading and helping to influence the rise of fascism in a very tangible way.
I have no problem with genuine or misguided Marxists, in the same way that I have no problem with genuine or misguided Republicans. Because I believe like you, that it is possible to talk them down. When a community swarms and acts like a hive, like Lemmy.ml does, then it becomes really problematic. It uses group think to silence other ideas.
I’ve been around long enough to know not to fuck with propagandists that encourage others not to vote or otherwise usher in fascism.
First off, are you asserting that tankies are fascist?
Secondly, what do you think about Marxist-Leninism relies on “the destruction of society”? Are you talking about revolutionary ideology in general?
Well, they can’t silence you if you’re not posting in one of their communities, by definition, because they don’t have moderation capabilities outside of lemmy.ml. I have never seen a Beehaw post be “silenced” by tankies.
Which is funny, because in my view the VBNMW propagandists are (and demonstrably have succeeded in) ushering in fascism by discouraging people from voting for anyone but the most milquetoast, do-nothing, two-steps-right-one-step-left candidates, and discouraging actual democracy where people make their own choices.
But you know, clearly it’s the tiny contingent of Lemmy tankies who ushered in Trump, not the mainstream media centrists like NYT with nation-wide reach, who shouted down and shamed anyone voting for Bernie instead of Biden, or anything…
Yup.
Fascism, authoritism, single party rule, etc. are all symptoms of a decayed society and something that tankies generally want.
Nope.
False. Re-read what you specifically are replying to with this statement.
See also: the global positive effects of Ukraine bombing the shit out of Putin’s data centers.
I love when tankies invent acronyms and words, it’s always so funny. I just picture them in Fedora’s with a smug look probably thinking, “aha, good sir, bet you’ve never heard that word before.” I’ll be honest, sometimes faking intellectualism can be an effective propaganda tool, it makes people believe you have authority on the subject. But if you see enough Lemmy.ml posts and start looking up the terms, you start to realize they’re all just made up.
So, aside from your obscure acronym (for those non-tankies out there it means Vote Blue No Matter Who) you actually raise a decent point. One that’s incredibly naiive, but nonetheless decent.
There is a way out of Trumpism, and Centrism - which is rotten, and one of those ways out is via voting. It is the most straight forward path out and it clearly benchmarks the size of a movement.
The general rule of thumb is that 3.5% of the population is needed for a successful revolution. Tankies are way off from this number. Hell, even if the lazy bastards could get off their asses and vote once a year, I doubt we’d see them make up 3.5% of the population, but look at how fucking lazy tankies are. They can’t even vote because theyre such losers. Imagine how many tankies the US would need to have to make up 3.5% of the population to do a revolution.
Tankies being lazy AF aside, “voting blue no matter who” is only half what people should be saying, the other half being, “vote like hell in the primaries” - point being, most states restrict ballot access to third parties, meaning it is easier for people who want to make* change to run as a Democrat, build a coalition and take over the party and then create sweeping reform.
Voting blue no matter who is like packing dirt into the roots of a riverside tree. You know a lot of that dirt will wash away, but what doesn’t will give the roots a place to grow stronger. It’s erosion control, while grass root campaigns grow to change the country for the better. Vote blue no matter who, so that you have time to build a movement big enough to make our communities better.
*please note, I said people who want to MAKE change, not people who want change
Clearly, its not. You should work on your reading comprehension. And your critical thinking.
I specifically brought up r/the_Donald because it is a propaganda source that is echoed by Lemmy.ml. r/the_Donald was a really effective propaganda source that worked hand-in-hand with mainstream media centrists like NYT.
I like coming to beehaw because it’s not a constant firehouse of propaganda. Lemmy.ml being in the feed ruins the experience for me. And for new users who came to Beehaw for the break from constant corporatist propaganda, Tankie propaganda can be very effective.
The fediverse is full of people upset by the pedophile class. Why let tankie propaganda encourage people to not take action?
Well, I don’t know what else to tell you other than “you’re wrong”. Fascism is an exclusively right-wing construct. It’s also not just some generic “suppressing dissent by force” that most centrists define it as, it has a very explicit set of features. If you’re not familiar with Umberto Eco’s “Ur-Fascism”, I’d encourage you to read it. Authoritarianism != Fascism.
I agree about everything minus “fascism” (see above), which is why I disagree with Marxist-Leninism. But the assertion you previously made was that they wanted to destroy society, which is a far cry from listing symptoms of a “decayed” society which are ironically right in line with our current predicament.
Well considering I had written out the phrase in an earlier comment, I didn’t think it was quite so unreasonable to think you might understand it, but I’m glad it gave you the chance to feel good by concocting some fantasy tankie strawman.
But honestly, I’m glad you pivoted to calling me a tankie. It really shows the dangers of the kind of echo chamber you want to construct, where everyone who disagrees with you is secretly the enemy in disguise. And unfortunately, y’all got your way, and the admins did de-federate from them, so I guess now instead of being called a secret capitalist by the tankies, I just have to look forward to being called a secret tankie by the likes of you.