I give 10 euros that I’m the only Greek alt t-girl in my country. I wish they were more :3

Recommend listening to pan pan 🍳

      • Linda R ( Lehmuusa@nord.pub ) English
        2·
        24 hours ago

        Okay, let’s go for an anecdote.

        End of June this year, there was a Pride march in Helsinki. That was around when I started seriously questioning if I’m really non-binary or maybe actually transfeminine. The organization Transfeminiinit had organized a trans block, open for all trans people, not just transfems. So, I felt safe to go there even though I did not feel securely binary.

        I arrived so early that there were only two other in the block people before me. One older trans woman who was carrying the organization’s flag, and then a cis woman. I could not understand what the hell the cis woman was doing there. She did not seem to be the other woman’s close friend. An ally of a kind, maybe? But seemed super suspicious, because when I listened to her speaking, there was nothing hinting why she had arrived to the trans people’s block. And she looked so extremely feminine that I was very sure she cannot be identifying as non-binary either. No enby would be comfortable looking as feminine as she did!
        Of course I also considered the possibility that she could be a trans woman, but with that body it was clearly not possible.

        Only, some 30 minutes later I listened to her talk about her transitioning and I understood why she was there. Such an extremely passing person that even though she was in a trans event and I was explicitly trying to find some proof that she is trans, I could not recognize her as one.

        Now, why am I telling this? Because I just had a conversation with her yesterday, and it turns out she feels horrible because she is sure she does not pass as a woman. She’s saying that “everyone can immediately see that I am trans”.
        If you look at her, it is absolutely unambiguous that she is wrong. Just objectively wrong. If she clocks to someone as trans, then at least 30 % of cis women clock as trans to that someone.

        What I’m trying to say here is that we all are constantly afraid of not passing. Even the ones who pass with flying colours in reality. Even that woman I now wrote about, who is surely the most passing trans woman I have ever seen anywhere, is somehow still sure that she does not pass almost at all.
        I believe I will never stop feeling that I don’t pass. And you will never stop feeling that you don’t pass. Basically no trans woman ever stops feeling that she doesn’t pass. That’s just a part of being trans. No matter how well you pass, that feeling will always be with you. Just tell the feeling it’s irrelevant.
        When you know your friend’s answer to “is it now day or night” is always “day” regardless of the time, his answers are irrelevant. Even if in the daytime they are right. That friend’s answers hold no information value at all. And your eternally omnipresent feeling of not passing holds no information value either, because no matter what the reality is, it will always say “thou shall not pass.”

        The only way to know whether you pass or not is through other people’s words and reactions. Some time ago a guy opened a door to me and then when I was right next to him, he got shocked and started shouting slurs at me. That was my first time, and it still has not happened again, so I am just happy that it happens so seldom. But I’m also happy that he showed that he would never open a door for a trans woman, only for a cis woman. And he did open the door for me!

        And I would never have thought that I already pass, even from a distance. But although my brain says everybody will think I’m a man in women’s clothes from a distance of half a kilometre, in reality I needed to get closer than a metre away from the guy before I was close enough for him to notice I am not a cis woman after all. That’s how you know whether you pass or not. Your own opinion on your passing is not relevant for figuring that out. At what distance people start shouting anti-trans slurs at you tells much more. The unit of passing is the metre :)

        So, the question is: How close do you need to walk to an anti-trans person before they start shouting their shit at you? In your case, you could probably give them a kiss and they would not notice.

      • ChaoticNeutralCzech ( ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org ) English
        3·
        3 days ago

        Do Greeks have astronomically high standards? The only thing indicating you’re not a cis woman is the trans flag pin. I haven’t heard your voice or seen other pics but I don’t really need to: if this is what you look like to strangers, there shouldn’t be any ambiguity whether you are a woman.

          • Linda R ( Lehmuusa@nord.pub ) English
            2·
            1 day ago

            What helped me was that I happen to have a very very overweight colleague. She’s absolutely not a model, but she is absolutely unambiguously a woman.

            She does not need to look awesome to be a woman. You are not supposed to look like a good-looking woman. You are supposed to look like a woman. Take the least attractive cis woman that you would still never confuse for a cis man, and compare your outlook to that of hers. She is absolutely a woman, and if you look at least as woman as she does, then you look like a woman.

            People can want whatever the fuck they want from a woman’s outlook. That their problem, not a problem of the woman.

            I can want all the cider in my neighbouring shop for free. It doesn’t mean that the shop has to care. The shop is under no obligation to give me free cider. Even though I want them to give it to me.
            And similarly, a lot of people want a woman to look good. But it does not mean the woman has to care. The woman is under no obligation to look good. Even though other people want her to look good.

            Every cis woman has a right to not look good. And so do we. So do you. (And you also have a right to try to look good, and you I have met you IRL and know that you excercise that right with a lot of success.)

            One more question to the end: Is a 85-year-old cis woman super sexy in your eyes? Probably not? Is she a woman in your eyes? Probably yes? Does she have a right to be called a woman although she is not sexy? Probably yes? Absolutely yes, I would say. A woman is a woman is a woman. Sexy or not.

            Unsexy women are women.

          • ChaoticNeutralCzech ( ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org ) English
            1·
            2 days ago

            Hmm… This is hard to research so I’ll try my best so summarize for folks finding this, and I invite Phnelope to correct me if I’m wrong. I will be sounding like an LLM but please bear with me…

            The first results I get for “σλαττινα” are Romanian, Czech, and other Slavic place names since “slatina” means “salt bog”. That’s not correct…

            What you’re referring to is Greek Gen-Z slang, usually written as “σλατίνα” and documented, for example, in this news article (Greek).

            What you first notice in the article before Firefox’s translation loads is the English word “trap”. Careful, that is also a slur for trans women but here it fortunately refers to trap music mostly by Thug Slime. He inspired girls to adopt a “Slime Love All the Time” (SLAT or SLATT, plus the feminine -ina ending) style, characterized by extreme femininity (makeup, colorful nails, plastic surgery) and revealing outfits. Think the Kardashians or Cardi B. It also contains “Latina” (Latin woman), which is associated with a darker skin tone and round curves.

            Thug Slime’s trap music (also with hip-hop elements) shares some superficial similarities (synth drums) with OP’s favorite musician Pan Pan’s electropop, synthpop and indie dance songs but it’s otherwise a very different genre.

            To OP:

            There are many valid ways to be a woman. Don’t worry, there are boys who certainly don’t want a σλατίνα. Personally, as a mid-20s cishet Czech man, I’m rather repulsed by their hypersexual presentation and I’m sure some Greeks, even your age, are too… Even if they’re a minority, you are gorgeous and you only need to find one person who likes your style (and vice versa) to get a partner (if you choose to).

            “Passing” generally refers to when a trans person’s gender can be generally correctly guessed by onlookers. When you go out like this, you’d have a hard time finding someone who wouldn’t think you’re a female, which means you are passing. Some elements of your body might not be as feminine as people expect but you’re successful at hiding them in this photo, which is a valid strategy and encouraged if it makes you feel comfortable. Of course, it takes effort such as shaving or makeup but cis women do it too, plus as the hormones start to do their thing, you’ll find it easier to present as a woman successfully. Only people who accept you as a woman, such as your friends or potentially partner(s) deserve to see/hear more of you than what you show in public.

  • Setiyeti93 ( Setiyeti93@lemmy.ca ) English
    8·
    4 days ago

    There are two people in my life from Greece. One left because they didn’t believe the culture would ever accept them. They are quite Alt and T. My partner 😊

    The other who is non-binary and ace remains there. They say that slowly some people are more accepting, but it is very slow.

    We actually had a conversation not that long ago about being non-binary in a country that uses an inherently gendered language. I haven’t had to speak or live in Greece for 10 years but still know how difficult it can be.

    All that to say. I’m sure you’re not alone, but fully understand how lonely it can feel.

    Also.

    Δείχνεις υπέροχος 😊

    • Kalliope ( Phnelope@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) OPEnglish
      4·
      4 days ago

      Awww y’all shall get married:) I know any Greek is saying that they wanna leave the country (me included) well honestly in the capital and the student city’s is quite good and you can be more of yourself. I hope I am Soo wrong and you are right 🏳️‍⚧️

      Also thank you, my whole gallery is full of me lol

  • mel ♀ ( mat@jlai.lu ) English
    3·
    4 days ago

    The only thing I know about modern Grece is how Europe fucked it (in France we even have a “nice billionaire” trying to explain how he helped to “save” the economy) and Krav Boca. Maybe check a live show of them if they play there ^^