If you do not want to open reddit
Classic “you realize that’s worse, right” meme
I saw no explanation for the “loser” quotes (except apart from admitting that he used shitty language in some replies). So I assume those were not out of context.
It’s briefly mentioned
It’s true, he used shitty language and he personally apologized to the whole company
So yeah, the CEO made a mistake there. The rest was distorted by 404
…was it?
When someone shows you how evil they are, believe them. When they then try to walk back and apologize (not for doing the evil thing, but for being found out), remember the truth they showed you.
There’s multiple things at hand here, including professionalism, AI code quality, and perception vs truth. It’s reductive to take one aspect (professionalism) and judge all the other aspects based on it.
Yeah that is what I meant by
except apart from admitting that he used shitty language in some replies
But it only seems like an afterthought. I would consider this work place bullying for which normally the consequence is getting fired from your post. When a CEO does it, the only consequence is “he promised to work on it” (which admittedly is more than what you would get from any other large tech company today lol).
Thanks, I’ve only been following the drama from Lemmy posts. So I’m wondering though, reading about Proton AG on Wikipedia I see they opened up their cloth to the Swiss government with user information, and it ended up getting a customer, who was an activist in Atlanta, arrested by the FBI. Fucking amazing for a company that screams privacy first about everything.
Why isn’t that incident enough for everyone to drop them? The koolaid-soaked middle manager posting on Rddt defending their corpo’s AI policy is icing on a cake already made of shit. Did he make a post defending the asterisk “privacy first” should have in their marketing?
Why isn’t that incident enough for everyone to drop them?
There is no public email service provider -as far as I know- that would refuse a court order to share such information. In the case of Proton any foreign authority wanting such needs to convince Swiss authorities that their request is legitimate.
Ultimately if you register an account with false credentials & never pay for pro, then the only thing proton can give to Swiss authorities is maybe your IP address, which will be your VPN if you have one. If you pay then payment credentials could be used to identify you.
All the emails stored on proton’s servers are non-recoverable, same as with Tuta.
It sucks that paying for pro reduces your privacy, but this applies to other email providers as well. This is actually what happened in the Atlanta case & there is no real defense against it. Using your personal credit card creates a trail.
Can you imagine a world where you can order physical cards for email credit? (and they would have randomized codes to avoid this exact problem)
Did he make a post defending the asterisk “privacy first” should have in their marketing?
Private email is a bit of an oxymoron, the best anyone can do is to store your own email history in an unrecoverable way, which proton is doing, but their marketing team is not really transparent about what “private email” really is & what that means to users.
They sell their service as privacy-first across a suite of tools, but they don’t explicitly define the limitations. Now that I’m looking they lean in on the whole Swiss thing being a reason their privacy is so private. So if anything they are advertising that the Swiss government is hard to convince to share information with foreign authorities (they weren’t).
This is exactly the kind of bullshit marketing that I’m getting at. Proton AG could be upfront the limitations of that privacy, or how an account should be created to be compatible with the expectation they are creating, or disclose when they’re being asked for information, by whom, or a whole raft of choices. They could choose to be loud about it all, but they are only loud about the marketing and silent on their compliance activity.
As an aside I’m also wary of these goofy org structures of non-profit owned by for-profit companies. It’s the same kind of assumptions-based marketing at play where non-profit sounds nicer than big evil money hungry corpo. But it’s actually just a way to shelter money from tax, or access the Swiss Finance system in a way that enables the company to hide they want to hide.
you could pay tuta in cash AFAIK. this makes it basically impossible to recover a trail from the mail. just FYI. (neglecting forensic madness on fingerprint analysis of the bills and letter you handed in.)
Alright, so Tuta has gift cards, that’s wicked cool. TIL
But at the end of the day secure mail is still not a real thing for most people.
right I just checked they do gift cards now.
I think I was mistaken, posteo accepts cash payment: https://posteo.de/en/payment
for most people
yes living in this dystopia one must say that most people do not have a specific threat model. but i get your point.
yes living in this dystopia one must say that most people do not have a specific threat model. but i get your point.
I meant that encrypted email is not very useful if none of your mailing partners are using a compatible service. (that is the case with me)
Tuta has gift cards
How did I miss this???
AFAIK Signal cannot couple payments with users. Why can’t email do the same?
Honestly I’m not entire sure, i’m not a lawyer.
Though Proton is a subscription service. Then again, probably with some clever tricks it’s possible to devise a renewing subscription that is not storing the payment credentials in such a way that the company could not extract it. The more I think about this, the more i’d like to know what Swiss law really allows for. (chatGPT thinks you’re right & my argument is on very weak grounds)
Companies will not break the law for customers, and will obey subpoenas because they have to. For extreme privacy, use Tor and anonymous crypto. Proton is for basic privacy only.
There’s a difference of degree between “obey a subpoena” and “hand over an environmental activist to a fascist government”. Or are you suggesting that “I was just following orders” is a valid excuse?
Proton is marketing to tens of millions of people and customers who have no intention of breaking any law, but want some assurance of privacy when laws are changed or ignored by whoever is currently in charge of whatever country. Choosing Proton as your provider because you want to privately break the law with their tools is not the same thing, or even relevant.
I am not saying that Proton customers want to break the law. I am saying that customers should not expect Proton to break the law. They should be aware that subpoenas exist, and that all companies follow them (aside from massive tech companies like Apple that can afford the lawyers to fight the subpoena), and that its an inherent risk of relying on any private company.
Pretty wild how people are replying to you suggesting a company should (or even could) just break court orders for their customers. That’s just not how the world works.
OK andy
I’m still migrating when my subscription ends. Fuck Proton and AI (and crypto…)
When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
If this “Richard” is legit, he needs to take the above advice, same as the rest of us did.
