kbin.social will also be defederated from beehaw.org, sooner or later.
After all, it has open registration policy and many users too.
Reading their rationale, yes, I think there’s a very good chance they’ll defederate kbin.social as well, sooner or later, regardless of how moderation here works.
#justfediversethings I guess.
Do you know where I can find their rationale - is it posted somewhere still accessible?
It’s literally linked at the top of this thread.
Duh. 😳
Is it possible for them to defederate from kbin completely?
Depends on what you mean by “kbin”, I guess. At least, assuming they don’t turn to using a whitelist.
Kbin.social, the website? Yeah, of course.
Kbin the software? No. They can’t just say “I don’t want to federated with kbin-based websites”.
Yes
Interesting. I support their right to make that decision and I’m glad that’s an option in the Fediverse. I’m not sure I’d want to see that change happening if I were a member of their instance (I haven’t spent enough time there to have an informed opinion about the alleged problems they cite in the post), but I suppose the strength of federation is that users can choose to move to another instance without necessarily losing access to Beehaw’s content. I wonder how this will play out among their userbase?
I’m a Beehaw member; also a kbin member, but I wasn’t able to get on here until tonight because it had been so laggy a few days ago that I’d given kbin up as unusable. To answer your question, I don’t like it but I do understand it. It sounds from what they’ve said that they basically had no choice; they were overwhelmed.
That said, I’m now VERY glad that I have a kbin account. I just re-created my subscription list (including magazines from both of the banned instances) here. I just hope kbin isn’t going to ban them too?
And just in case anyone is wondering: I expect to keep using both Beehaw and kbin (and my other Fediverse accounts, for that matter; I’m on Mastodon, BookWyrm, and Paper.wf). It’s nice to have a low-stress refuge like Beehaw sometimes But I want to be able to access the whole wide world when I choose, too!
I just hope kbin isn’t going to ban them too?
I think it’s more likely that beehaw.org is going to defederate kbin.social as well
I don’t give a week before bee defederate kbin.
If you don’t mind, would you explain why you have bookwyrm and paper.wf since you have mastodon?
What makes those different in your experience? (just looking them up didn’t give me much of a real feel.) I have mastodon and kbin right now since they’re both different.
I never really cottoned to Mastodon, possibly for the same reasons I never took to Twitter. Perhaps I’m just too much of a chatterbox to accept their post length limitations. 😆
Bookwyrm is outstanding for book reviews, and it allowed me to import the CSV of my reviews from GoodReads. If Mastodon can do that, I wasn’t aware of it.
Paper.wf was recommended to me as a Fediverse boxing site. Mastodon is too short-form for me. Beehaw doesn’t seem to have a personal blog as an option. BookWyrm, oddly enough, does - and I just discovered that I can see my BookWyrm blog (called “Direct Messages” there, which really doesn’t make sense) from kbin. I have no idea how that works, since my accounts are separate.
Paper.wf is elegant, but seemingly skimpy on features, though. Currently I can’t figure out how to find other blogs there or follow them, and as far as I can tell there’s no way for anybody to comment on blog entries there. If anyone wants to check out my blog there, here it is. Maybe you can tell me how to comment on entries!
It’s easiest to compared them to their non-fedi equivalents.
Twitter (Mastodon), Goodreads (Bookwyrm) and Medium (Write Freely) offer users different experiences, UI’s and tools.
the admin here hasn’t made any mention of blocking instances. and something tells me he’s not interested in doing so. so for kbin’s side of things it’s probably fine. but we might get blocked by beehaw as well. I doubt kbin will block lemmy.world.
Most support it, although not all. They’ve been clear ask asking that they were trying to build a well-moderated space so it aligns With why most people are there - saw one person say that their first post had been hit by right-wing trolls from one of those instances, so if that’s happening then defederation makes sense.
Servers defederating themselves from others with policies they don’t agree with is pretty common, especially if those policies are considered problematic. But I don’t know what to think about the fact I can’t see Beehaw mods specifying any particular instances of issues stemmed from users of those two severs, and it seems like the only criteria for defederating was the size of those two servers.
But I guess they have the freedom to make whatever rules they want for their own sever.
From what I have read it was about the difficulty moderating such a large userbase which is perfectly reasonable. The great thing about Lemmy is that anyone who disagrees can start their own server and run it however they want.
Yeah, I have no issues with how they choose to run their instance.
@LollerCorleone What I understood was that the moderation was difficult now, due not only to the size of the instances but also with the fact that almost all the people were new and the communities are not stable yet.
Since they have a quite high moderation standard, I guess that now, with few resources and a fast grow, it is difficult to keep it. And this standard is a commitment to the own community, people joint the instance because of it.
Another issue to take in account is that the moderation tools are not enough to handle with the problems of big and heterogeneous social networks. If I understood, in Lemmy and Kbin the only possibilities are to be federated or not, but not something in between like in Mastodon (the silence option).
Are Beehaw some sort of gatekeepers? I mean if you don’t want any interaction outside of your own instance at all because you can’t handle it, why even create an instance on an federated network?
They advertise themselves as a safe space.
being safe and being open are somewhat detrimental to each other.
They choose to be less open, to be more safe.Fine by me, but I’d expect them to turn into a LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?) echo chamber before long.
And maybe I’ll be wrong, and that’ll be fine too.
LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?)
feeling edgy today are we
LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?)
It’s somewhat ironic that this is just the sort of statement that beehaw admins are fed up of moderating away.
Yeah I’ve definitely noticed a running set of themes in the posts that are most critical of this move and it’s making me much more sympathetic to Beehaw’s decision.
Assholes don’t like being told they’re not invited to the party. And the reasons they’re not invited are… Well, things start to get recursive at this point.
Funny to me that people like you always complain about “safe spaces” in the same breath that you make it clear you can’t handle something as irrelevant to you as someone’s sexuality. That’s projecting fragility. These aren’t “safe spaces,” they’re just only allowing decent people who don’t flip their shit when they find out what two consenting adults want to do with their bodies.
I mean the description on join lemmy is “ Aspiring to be(e) a safe, friendly and diverse place.” So I think that counts?
That’s the beauty of the Fediverse - everyone gets to make the rules for their own instance, and you choose the instance you want.
There will be widely federated instances, entirely private instances (I’m looking at one for our work intranet) and everything in between.
It would be nicer if account migration were possible so hopefully that becomes a thing someday
It would suck having your account on an instance for 2+years then all of a sudden moderators change and you no longer agree with the instance, but are now stuck there and have to go by the decisions the new mods make or make a new account somewhere else.
Yup. On the todo list, believe. Mastodon handles it quite nicely now.
some of the first posts i see on kbin from other instances are about a major defederation lol. not ideal since this is happening when the fediverse is growing… but I suppose this is the intent behind the fediverse.
this comment about it is great: https://kbin.social/m/main@sh.itjust.works/t/22433/Beehaw-defederated-us#entry-comment-90015
"I think it’s easy to take this personally but I think it’s more about the moderation tools in Lemmy not being adequate at the moment so this is the best bandaid solution for now. We need to quickly put effort into developing better moderation tools like limiting other servers without fully defederating, limiting specific communities, forcing nsfw on communities/instances, proxying reports to origin servers so admins have better feedback on their instance user’s bad behavior, and many other things if we want to prevent defederating like this from being the only option.
I think infighting about this decision and differing moderation styles instead of focusing together on moderation challenges and tooling deficiencies risks tearing the community / federation apart and is counterproductive to the goal of being better than reddit."
there will be growing pains.
If you are a subreddit drama enjoyer this exact sort of thing only adds more appeal to the fediverse.
Odd how the decentralized platform doesn’t scam well when you have centralized moderation.
/s
Uh… that’s unfortunate because many will just interpret it as federation being bad and will go back to reddit preaching against fedi.
That being said it could also be a reason for admins to have conversations about how to deal with these migrations and which moderation tools they need.
Uh… that’s unfortunate because many will just interpret it as federation being bad
IRC networks sometimes split. That didn’t mean that they didn’t generally stay together. Just that there were several major networks and a some isolated servers.
Usenet, as far as I know, generally remained one network, but occasionally saw Usenet Death Penalties.
XMPP supports federation, but organization, like businesses, exist that choose to use isolated XMPP servers.
This is where federation works anyway. Whoever comes here making posts from an account with more real life authority has a lot more to lose.
The trade off is some random exec could post here but since they are @exec that’s just them (obviously with a small grain of salt).
Federation just means that you can interact with as much or as little real life as you want. Some random Karen from Wichita, KS could call you weak on her fully fleshed out life story profile on some weird anonymous hamburger helper support group.
I think we do need to keep letting this play out though. It’s a very interesting experiment. There are definitely problems that need to be solved going forward but I think this place will be fine.
Yeah, it’s literally very early days. This is new, everyone here has just flooded in, and things need time to sort out and stabilise. There isn’t a “system” that works for everyone yet. We’ll see new instances getting popular, drama and controversy, and so forth. That’s normal on the internet.
I didn’t know about UDP xD
I remember being on Usenet but at the time I think the average user would have little to no knowledge on how the system worked. You just had to choose a server after reading a few guides and there was no rush.
I like how federation works but right now people come here with different expectations and when it occurs in waves I think it’s too stressful.
I mean, honestly, this sounds like a good thing, because the system works. Isn’t it kind of the point of the fediverse that if you don’t like someone else’s rules, you can do your own thing? They aren’t beholden to your rules, and you aren’t beholden to theirs either. That sounds to me like a great system where no one group of people or opinions can exert control over everyone else.
Reading that announcement felt like the beginning of Mortal Engines when the small cities started rapiding from London.
This is honestly the only major issue I have with the Fediverse. Most of my Reddit/social media posts are related to three or so niche interests. My first Mastodon account was on the central hub for one interest that later defederated with the central hub for another interest. Not being able to interact with 1/3rd of the people I want to interact with just defeats the whole point of joining these kinds of platforms. Moderators just carving out a chunk of the Fediverse for their users is just unacceptable.
Moderators just carving out a chunk of the Fediverse for their users is just unacceptable.
The Fediverse is made up of independent websites, and the people who operate those websites have freedom of association.
Full stop.
Right, but how is it any different than half the users on a subreddit leaving and starting their own? People will always get together in groups and will always naturally begin to despise one another for whatever reason.
It sucks, but it’s just the way it is. If people don’t want to interact with one another, there’s no point in forcing them to do so.
It’s different because if people leave and start a new subreddit, you can still visit, subscribe to, comment on, etc. that new subreddit.
everyone who signed up as smaller instances is laughing right now.
join
a
smaller
instance
If they block kbin.social, will kbin.social users still be able to read posts on beehaw but not post or interact with them?