looks like rendering adblockers extensions obsolete with manifest-v3 was not enough so now they try to implement DRM into the browser giving the ability to any website to refuse traffic to you if you don’t run a complaint browser ( cough…firefox )
here is an article in hacker news since i’m sure they can explain this to you better than i.
and also some github docs
Ad Blocking is cyber security
The FBI recommends using an ad blocker: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221
Malvertising (a portmanteau of “malicious software (malware) advertising”) is the use of online advertising to spread malware.
It typically involves injecting malicious or malware-laden advertisements into legitimate online advertising networks and webpages.
Because advertising content can be inserted into high-profile and reputable websites, malvertising provides malefactors an opportunity to push their attacks to web users who might not otherwise see the ads, due to firewalls, more safety precautions, or the like.
Malvertising is “attractive to attackers because they ‘can be easily spread across a large number of legitimate websites without directly compromising those websites’.”A better quote
We need more browser options, not just Firefox and 20 versions of chrome.
If you have the funds, donate to Mozilla. They’re not only the main developers of the only major competing browser engine, but also do a lot of other good work. You can hope for others, but with Firefox only having single-digit usage share it needs all the help it can get.
You can’t legally donate to Firefox, as it is developed by a Corp (Mozilla Corp.). Donations go to Mozilla Foundation, which does… other things with you money. In other words, your money don’t go towards FF development.
So, if you donate thinking that your money helps Firefox development, you’re doing it wrong.
To be fair, there are about 20 versions of Firefox too. It’s just that most of them aren’t there to Hoover up ad revenue.
I completely agree, but don’t forget that WebKit exists too on Mac and Linux with about the same market share as Firefox (at least based on w3school’s stats). Chrome/Blink dominate but all hope is not lost and there are more options, they’re just small. I think focusing on embracing Firefox/Gecko as it has so much momentum and community already is the most productive way forward though
The only reason WebKit has any market share left is because iOS/iPadOS forces it on their users even if you try to use other browser
Nope. I’ve used GNOME web before, and others as well.
A good project to support would be the Ladybird.
They don’t even have builds. How can we support tools the bulk of users can’t easily implement or recommend non technical people to try?
You can support by joining the project and helping them to fix issues. It’s a young project, but they’ve been progressing really fast. Andreas Kling is one of the original developers of Safari, and in the past years he’s been creating his own operating system (Serenity OS) and formed a team who’ve been doing their own JavaScript engine, web browser and a programming language together with the OS. It’s a really fascinating story and I give all the respect for them for doing this. This is the work we have to do if we want to beat Google from taking the internet. It’s us who need to step up and start fixing the internet.
https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/
I don’t disagree with you on alternatives but again it’s challenging for the technical folks amongst our peer groups to help adoption of an alternative if we can’t provide places for the folks we support to download the alternative and try it
There’s no way for any of my family or friends to understand how to build their own browser, let alone setup a WSL2 environment to make it work. Their eyes are going to glaze over at the thought then they’re going to go download something else.
That time is not yet. Give it a few years and if you’re willing, join the project to help. There is movement, it’s just about how can we help.
Google basically made it so that it takes a large company to compete with all the “”“web features”“” that they have, so good luck with that.
True, what we truly need and have the force to get behind with is an Alternate Internet, an Alternet of sorts. Something like Gopher, or Gemini.
I like what gemini is trying to accomplish but I think we need something closer to what the web WAS.
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You have… Safari…
–>since everyone is confused about this i’m gonna try to explain as best as i could and also clearing some misconceptions:
1# why this is such a big deal ?
if this gets implemented AND it gets widely adopted websites now can refuse to give you content if you are running a non complied browser, remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site” they can detect this by various methods but ultimately all of them rely on running a JavaScript into your browser. which you guessed it, its easy to modify and tamper with manually or using extensions
now what WEI-API does is that it can verify the integrity of the web page ( JavaScript/HTML/CSS has not been modified ) and even tell the website what extensions - ad blocker detected no content for you - you are using and what browser you are using - firefox or brave detected no content for you - and do not be fooled into thinking that this can be spoofed. and website owners who think that they are running a business not a charity will implement this.
2#will using firefox save me?
if this gets widely adopted and you inevitably encounter a website that require this ( for your job ,school or your bank ) you have no choice but to use chrome just like when your banking apps refuse to work because your phone is rooted which means that SAFETY-NET is broken
3#why this is a threat to begin with?
this is only viable if the web adopt it so why bother?, well guess what google is famous for making its services very easy to integrate and well documented just look on how easy it is to integrate google analytics and google adsense* into websites and how many of them use it in the internet.
4#what can we do to prevent this?
this is my personal opinion but i think we simply can’t, this not like the reddit incident were very large portion of the user base was upset most people don’t know/care/give-a-fuck about web technologies and how they work.
#and Finally “but google said they don’t plan to use this to fingerprint you (Device ID) or track your browser history or interfere with the work of extensions”
do you really believe that a company like google whose bread and butter is advertising would not make it easier for themselves, a company who has been exposed time and time again for lying and having ulterior motives ( you don’t need to look far just look into what manifest-v3 did )
remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site”
I can easily imagine this not being a necessary, anymore. Just let the website using this WEI API automatically disable all browser extensions on a WEI-enabled site. Why not, after all? Why should you dictate the traffic you receive on your computer? Why should you own anything?
I will happily stop visiting any website that demands I use an approved browser.
Well, those of us who care all say that but I for one have to access government and banking websites in several countries, if they implement this I have no choice. This abomination must be prevented in the first place.
You can use Chrome for those websites if they completely break, and Firefox for everything else.
Banks and government websites don’t tend to have adverts.
Agreed.
We can criticize the EU, but they would not allow or force people to install Chrome in order to access government web sites.
… Until all the sites you absolutely need to use in order to *function in society *require approved devices with proper tracking.
So you fight it now by switching away from Google as much as you can.
That won’t help when you must use it for any online access to (for example) your bank, any loan application, school enrollment, car maintenance, online shopping, tax filing, airline tickets, passport renewal, license3 renewal, mortgage payment, etc., etc .
I will as well, unless it’s necessary for work/school, or to participate with the government, or not using it will isolate me from friends and family.
Google has close to absolute control of the internet, which is now an essential tool to participate in society. The amount of power they have is insane, it rivals governments.
Stop using Google products I don’t know how else to fucking say it.
Chrome -> Firefox Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
helped with formatting:
Chrome -> Firefox
Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options
Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office
YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse
Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc
Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
And I agree for sure. In order I use firefox (and brave sometimes), Proton Drive, Apple Productivity suite (pages, numbers etc), and either startpage or qwant, and proton mail. I do still use use YouTube Premium, but the point is Google doesn’t need to have its fingers in every aspect of my digital life.
I’m not sure LibreOffice is a drop-in replacement for Google Docs if you need sharing, collaboration and built-in version control.
Yes, something like collabora would be a better fit, although I never managed to get an actual instance of the thing running.
Works quite well through nextcloud IME :)
Well I tried this and… I just can’t get to run properly. Tried docker, AIO, separate installs :(
I found that quite easy, for once: I have a bare NC instance and I installed 2 add-ons (the integration bits and the CODE server that IIRC drops an appimage of the actual collabora server). Unless you have hundreds of users, that’s about as much admin as you need :)
I’ll give it another try then, thanks !
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Nextcloud technically does much of what Drive does, but my instance is buggy lol
Still, costing me nothing to run for now, AWS 12 month free tier. Will move to a VPS somewhere not-aws before that’s over.
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FYI, you need two new lines (hit Enter twice) to actually get a new line in Lemmy.
Two new lines One new line.
Can also add two spaces at the end of line to force line break
Is there a reason behind this?
It’s standard markdown afaik. Two new lines creates a new paragraphs, two spaces and one new line creates just a new line.
Markdown treats single newline breaks as being a line wrap in a long text flow
Because Reddit does it? 🤷♀️
Nah its part of the markdown specification
That’s actually a bit of a relief to learn. I didn’t want to believe it was simply because Lemmy was trying to copy Reddit, but I just didn’t know enough to see any other reason.
What’s the replacement for Android?
Linux, but that’s not a viable option. I would use degoogled Android OSs. GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, e/os, and LineageOS are some of the popular ones.
Also correct here.
The 3 main have varying degrees of function vs security/privacy and should be researched.
I use SailfishOS and while it’s more work, it’s viable.
Look, it’s an unpopular opinion and many will disagree with me, but while Apple does certain things to restrict you from customizing your experience, they’re doing far less to destroy the open Internet than Google. So if you need a fully featured OS (which degoogled custom Android ROMs might not be, if you need banking for an example), it’s still an alternative for now, until Linux mobile experience gets better.
On iOS, there’s no browser extensions (for e.g. ad blocking), no alternative browsers, and no FOSS apps of any kind. That platform is extremely hostile to the ideals of computing freedom.
Like I said, it’s a better (for privacy) alternative to stock Android when you need a fully functional operating system. If you can stand to lose the oppressive Google functionality, you can go degoogled Android or preferably Linux (if you don’t care about battery life or app availability).
Android, but the real one (AOSP, etc) that you can get with custom ROMs, not Google® Android©.
AOSP is a Google product.
That¿s why I said “the one you get from the custom ROMs”. Well, the ones that fork and maintain on their own anyway.
The other alternative honestly is Linux mobile, once it more properly launches.
Proton mail for sure!! Great great great! Cant stop recomending
Question, I use Google docs a lot cause I like the sync and it’s convenient when I write something like a book on my computer and then can add more on my phone and it syncs. Does Apache open office do that? I would like to switch if all this chrome stuff is bad but I use all of it all the time
I generally would recommend Libreoffice over AOO but not sure about cloud sync options
Interesting. Well, I did find Gnumeric in my search for a simple spreadsheet app for making flashcards with, so TIL something new I guess my “cloudsync” can be using syncthing or just backing up to a flash drive lol
https://cryptpad.fr is a potential option. You can also host it yourself if you don’t want to pay them for extra storage space.
Oh that looks neat! I’ll have to look into it, thanks!
I really really want to move from google workspace, google photos and google drive. I used it all to backup a 16TB archive, sharing photos with family and friends and keeping my personal files in the cloud and synched across computers. I used a Synology to backup the archive from the computer locally to the Synology and offsite to google drive. But here’s the thing, I’m a somewhat PC and Mac-savvy technical guy, but purely GUI. Is moving to Nextcloud on my synology going to be as easy as moving to google drive? I’m a little scared TBH. There are so many ways of installing next cloud and doing 3-2-1 backups and I don’t have time to handle a little error on a Synology destroying my whole workflow for days… Someone give me hope.
I like brave search because it uses its own index
Brave has done too many shady bullshit things and has thus completely lost my support and interest. I do not recommend them.
Remember when browsers just browsed…I really want to push the What’s Cool! button
Holy cow im getting nostalgia and I wasn’t even alive when Netscape was a thing, I think…
Fuck I’m old.
Sorry.
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Yeah, sure, it’s always the same story:
- Chrome adds a shitty anti-user “feature”
- Firefox users say “no come to firefox we don’t have that!”
- 3 months pass
- Firefox adds the same “feature” because it’s the standard now!!
I’m a Firefox user myself but I really hope something new comes along that actually cares about its users
You’re saying this like Firefox is adding the shitty standard because they want to, and not because Google used their monopoly to force adoption of the shitty standard forcing Firefox to follow suit if they don’t want their users to have a broken experience.
If Google introduces a shitty standard to YouTube and Firefox doesn’t adopt it, do you honestly think users are going to care or understand and blame Google? No, they’ll get pissed because they think Firefox broke YouTube and they’ll move to Chrome.
This exact situation played out with shadow DOM, Google implemented it into YouTube while it was still a draft standard, so all non-Chrome browsers ran worse because they had to use a polyfill.
That is why we’re telling people to stop using Chromium. If they didn’t have this monopoly none of this would be possible. Mozilla has some issues as an organization, but do honestly you think the better choice is letting an advertising company decide how the web works?
This is exactly why everyone should use fully idenpendted browser like Firefox
This is exactly why everyone should donate to Mozilla so they can stop being reliant on the Google search deal in Firefox.
You can’t legally donate to Firefox, as it is developed by a Corp (Mozilla Corp.).
Donations go to Mozilla Foundation, which does… other things with you money (advocacy and, frankly speaking, a lot of unrelated crap) In other words, your money don’t go towards FF development, so you may want to think twice before donating.
The sad part is Mozilla is more of a political organization than just the developers of Firefox now. So you’re donating for their lobbying, not just browser development.
Firefox needs new ownership. But it’s kinda hard considering how big of a project a browser is nowadays.
not just browser development
Not even a single dime can go towards FF development, as it is done by a Corporation (Mozilla Corp.) which can’t legally take donations.
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots.
Won’t you think of the poor poor ad companies?
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain
Do they actually, or is that just all they have to visit anymore? Would users not be happier visiting a bunch of cheap geocities pages with blink tags instead of tracking cookies?
It’s all about how far we can push the user and how much the user is willing to pay. Gotta squeeze and close all avenues of escape, so they tolerate some more.
Half the internet now seems to be bots creating content purely for the enjoyment of other bots. Typing any kind of difficult question into a search engine will now have you dodging a minefield of AI generated articles, none of which contain any useful information other than what they’ve scraped from other AI generated pages.
So true. I want to bang my head against a wall whenever i get a problem and the first three result pages are the same different article scraped by AI. To make matters worse, it’s almost always some speech about corruption followed by dism /fixnow
Thats what chatgpt solves.
Wait, is this google basically admitting they’ve been scamming advertisers by taking their money to show ads to bots?
I see so many comments from people saying they’ll jump ship if Google adds this to Chrome. They’ll move over to Firefox right away. But the thing most people don’t know is one reason Google has such a broad reach is they make it so crazy easy to integrate their services for developers.
So, yes, users who dislike what they’re doing should stop using Google products if possible. But, more importantly, developers or project managers, etc. should all resist the urge to utilize this kind of feature even if it’s easy.
What do you mean? Gcloud is definitely not “easy” when compared to others like AWS. Also I think it’s common sense to avoid google products because they tend to abandon ship in a few years.
I completely agree.
Would you like to follow me on G+ ?
Google & Microsoft are famous for copying what all the other companies are doing and then letting it all die.
Hello from Zune land.This kind of feature is likely to be cloud agnostic, so Gcloud vs AWS isn’t really what’s up for debate.
They’re likely referencing the ease of adding something like google analytics to a website, where you include a url in the code for a page and you’re done.
I mean Google has very convenient libraries that developers can add to their apps/websites like libraries for ads, A/B testing, crash reporting, push notifications, etc. Even using one’s Google account for SSO in an app just leaks a tiny bit of data for Google to suck up. I think the average phone user is unaware of how even non-Google apps can have Google code, even for iOS. Obviously, this is worse for Android since Google Play Services is installed on almost all Android devices.
“Do no evil.” …unless it’s projected as profitable, in which case, evil that shit up!
They ditched the “don’t be evil” years ago. Now it’s “As many ads as possible”.
I hear that they can cover up to 80% of a user’s visual field without inducing seizures.
I understood that reference!
They stopped using that saying years ago
Yet another vitally important front in the war on general purpose computing (it’s a short and important read imo)
Fuck Google, and fuck DRM.
Thank you for that read. That honestly gave me a lot more perspective than I had, and that speech was quoted from over a decade ago!? The more I know, the more I realize how much I don’t know… but hot damn. I know it’s been a fight, but “a war” really does seem more apt
What a read, wow. Thanks for sharing!
I work at a vpn/adblocker company and we just finished releasing an updated mv3 extension that does block ads effectively (among other things) but the feature set is limited vs mv2 because of the changes. Furthermore, google has actually pushed back their mandated release schedule for mv3 compliance because something less than 30% of the extensions on their store are anywhere close to ready for it (which if they pushed ahead with mv3 they would effectively break 70% of what’s on there overnight).
The DRM shit is just next-level bad though. Enshitification 101.
The thing is mv3 is not needed nor wanted by anyone, they are actively shoving an unnecessary product down our throats to show us more ads.
I will keep on using Firefox and Librewolf until the web goes back to webpages that load in text only browsers in less than 2 secs
Guess why I don’t use the Chrome ecosystem and don’t depend on Google.
This would include YouTube, mail, drive, maps, search which I use daily. And it will be baked into android, and possibly Mac os so it supports the latest standard.
My guess is that sooner or later google chrome will show scary warnings “this site does not support dem, here is a link why this is bad!!!” In the browsers address bar to get users and webmaster to adopt the DRM.
I rarely use Youtube, but this would help boost free/libre alternatives. I use Gmail web, which means Thunderbird-only or switching back to my own mailserver. Drive, there is Nextcloud. Maps, I mostly use Osmand. Search, I use ddg but here’s good point to use p2p and speciality search engines. Android, guess why I’m using Lineage OS. OS X, guess why I’m using Linux, or could switch to *BSD.
Google can continue to devolve into a shittier version of a walled garden that is Apple.
Front ends might not be classified as approved environments, though…
Other poster is right, those aren’t the only applications around that do those things. If you know its wrong why do it?
