People that claim themselves to be centrists in this economy, are either plain stupid or republicunts in disguise.
Yes, they are not mutually exclusive.
It’s this kind of rhetoric that prevents productive conversation. If we want anyone to change their minds the first step is to talk to them person to person, not boil someone down to black and white beliefs. People are more nuanced than that.
I can talk person to person with reasonable people. I do not find people reasonable that hate others for their skin color, their faith, or their identity, instead of hating them for their actions. I do not find people reasonable that want to exterminate those. I also do not find people reasonable that do not care about those being hated and death being wished upon them just because they are fiscally conservative .
My problem with “centrists” is that they’re using the word to avoid consequences for the hatred they spew online. Those “centrists” claim to be centrists but the only issues they ever talk about are right-wing issues, 99% of the time the culture war that they wage. Just say you’re republican and make it easy for me, I don’t care if we agree or disagree on other issues at the current time, if you think that exterminating different people is okay you cannot convince me of anything anymore.
It’s not even that black and white, because the term democrat and republican as far as political views mean much different things when it comes to different ages, backgrounds, area, etc.
For example, I tend to lean right when it comes to economics, however I do support things like public healthcare. Also, I lean pretty far left on social issues.
There are people all over the spectrum on all sorts of issues. I can see where it bothers people to be labeled one or the other because that’s not really who they are. I truly try to break candidates down by what their stances are and pick who most aligns with what I believe. I can honestly say every ballot I’ve ever cast I’ve voted for both Democrats and Republicans.
The only people I have a problem with is people that try to tell me I’m stupid because i didn’t vote all one way or the other.
There is a saying that if you have 9 people at a table and a nazi takes a seat you have ten nazis at a table. Inaction against damaging retoric is bad, but actively voting for it is worse. I know the whole nazi thing is very charged right now, but that isn’t the point.
If you vote for a republican than you are voting for another person in congress to push the party line. They may not agree with stopping bills that are good for the environment, but if they want to get reelected than they will vote how the party wants when it really matters.
Any vote for a republican is a vote for general public life to be worse for everyone. Your taxes will go up, trump made sure his tax hikes would all hit during the Biden administration, that isn’t an accident. And you will get less use out of your tax money with Republicans in charge. So what do you gain by voting for them?
The Nazi thing is extreme, but I get what you are saying.
I’m also not disagreeing with your overall message but it’s my opinion on why the current political scope in the US is the way it is.
A large issue with the US system is we have no left wing party. We have the Cia and fbi attacking leftist ideas across the world and domestic. And we have no option to vote for a party that says, “hey, we have enough, let’s make sure all of our citizens can eat” it shouldn’t be such a revolutionary thought.
You can’t talk to them person to person. That type of persuasion works in matters when the other person is operating in the cerebral realm of logic. The problem in politics is that we’re operating in the realm of identity, and you cannot reason somebody out of a matter of personal identity, because the brain treats threats to personal identity the same way as physical threats. Especially when it is a closed belief system that defines politics as tribal combat, veracity as irrelevant, any information that comes from outside the tribe as per se objectionable, and agreement as a failure of will.
Basically, the psychological research funds that you have to take them out of the Q/MAGA bubble, and surround them with people with diverse views. It can’t be done in online forums. I’ve tried. If you listen, you just get regurgitated talking points, and if you ask questions that start to make them think they abruptly disengage.
Especially when it is a closed belief system that defines politics as tribal combat
Is this not exactly what people are doing by making sweeping generalizations about others? I get you have had bad experiences, and I don’t doubt it in the slightest; however, saying that
You can’t talk to them person to person
seems very problematic. Yes, there are plenty of bad actors and people who will argue in bad faith, but there are also those who literally have never been exposed to different ways of thinking. There are those who have succumbed to the outrage machine. There are those who may just need a small nudge to challenge these beliefs they’ve been spoonfed their whole life.
The moment that you write off a whole group of people based on political beliefs, you write off any chance you have to change minds.
There’s a difference between prescriptive and descriptive, between saying what should be, and what is. I’m telling you the result of my empirical observations. You are welcome to try changing minds of people in the MAGA world. Don’t let me stop you. I’m just pointing out why it won’t work.
Or enlightened democrats who understand there party is the actual center and that workers aren’t represented outside of Bernie and AOC
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 4•11 months ago
Do they understand that the greater evil must be vanquished first?
You’re talking about leftists. I was saying there maybe actual centrists. Who would vote democrat even if a real leftist was on the ticket and had a real chance of winning because they actually preferred the center over the left.
Just another few hundred years and we can finally kill that other party and make a new one again. Like back when we killed the Whig party and they became Republicans and fixed everything.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 4•11 months ago
The greater evil is not just the party, but the awful ideology it represents. If only the party is vanquished, but people still believe in the ideology, then yeah, it’ll reassemble itself like the T-1000 and menace America all over again.
More accurately, I would say these types react to someone criticizing the status quo, which is typically right wing. These types are usually sheltered white guys who have had very few problems with the status quo because, well, they’re white men.
Idk, I’m just voting for the least shitty candidate out of the two and moving on. I don’t get why people care about parties at all and just focus on the issues that need to be solved and how they say they are going to solve it and what their character says about what they most likely are going to mess up.
I don’t take sides but I still want to see big changes that from my point of view would improve things for everyone, splitting giant companies and Foster competition, improving infrastructure to help create jobs, a deep focus on fixing root issues in healthcare instead of just slapping a bandage on it, better affordable internet accessibility for farmers and rural towns, as well as taking steps to preserve the environment for future generations, etc.
I don’t get the hate from all these people, I’m not even in the middle I just care about what I think needs to get done.
I’ve literally never seen a republican candidate be the less shitty option
“I don’t like the Right or the Left!” only criticizes the Left
Saw an old lady nearly shit herself with rage when Biden came on the news. Who was she bitching about? Hunter
Hunter doesn’t have a position in our Government, so who cares what he does?
In Spain, when someone says “I’m neither left or right”, that person is on the right, most of the time (if not always).
Yeah, same in America most of the time. Funny it’s often the right-wing that wants to pretend that they are “center” and/or are too afraid to say they are right-wing. It’s like they know…
Also centrists are just people who like the status quo which always benefits the people in power.
Everyone with at least 2 brain cells can guess that what they stand for is amongst the most inhumane shit one could stand for politically.
That’s why they pose as “centrists” because they know that they wish death on the people they hate which the general public doesn’t support.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 8•11 months ago
They know. They know their ideology is abhorrent. That’s why they’re trying to disguise it.
I feel like the very idea of “centrist” is flawed. Sure you can choose not to identify with either party.
But for most of these issues you can’t reasonably pick a “center” option for most issues. Sure we can argue implementation but you’re either ok with abortion, gun control, gay rights, civil rights, or your not.
Is it really useful to have the “control guns” and “control guns only a little” groups fighting when there’s a “school kids are a worthy sacrifice for guns” party?
I’m not pro life nor pro choice I think everyone should be able to do what they want!
I’m not left or right! But I believe describes the left
This is pretty accurate for the U.S., at least based on what I’ve seen of people online. I am not American, but one of your political parties built a gallows outside of the capital building and broke in while carrying weapons and chanting about hanging the vice president. I don’t think you can really be centrist when that’s one of the choices. You’re either for or against the “murder the government, ban democracy and institute fascism” party.
They always seem to vote Republican.
I’m not one of those people, especially since I don’t live in the US but is it so hard to envision having different views on different issues?
All of the stances taken by one side need not resonate with you.
I for example am not in support of social media witch hunts when someone is accused of being racist/sexist/classist and and so on. I firmly believe that we should be instituting bodies that have the power to investigate issues like this and take appropriate actions, with more freedom than the typical judicial process. This however does not mean that I don’t support gender equality, climate action or social welfare measures.
Another example would be affirmative action. I find it horrible that the supreme court gutted it the way it did but I also find it quite unpleasant that the elected representatives, in all this time, did not try to replace it with grassroot level measure such as food security, free tuition, books etc. higher school and teacher density in lower income or low performing areas. I feel that affirmative action was a stop gap measure, but it ended up being the prop used by politicians to not act on more fundamental issues.
Honestly, I would rather forgo the label altogether. In my experience label makes people into tribes and tribes aren’t really conducive to nuanced dialogue or individual opinions, rather, they’re good at collective action.
I also find it quite unpleasant that the elected representatives, in all this time, did not try to replace it with grassroot level measure such as food security, free tuition, books etc. higher school and teacher density in lower income or low performing areas.
So you support leftist ambitions, but because of some nonsense on Twitter you feel obligated to give credence to actual, flag-waving, “we’re coming to take your kids and throw you in prison,” nazis?
Holy shit you’re the guy from the meme
All of the stances taken by one side need not resonate with you.
I’m going to take the absolute worst possible view of the minority of the people I disagree with and paint the entirety of them as that thing
🤡
Holy shit you’re the guy from the meme
Yeah I totally am you know.
Despite the fact that I have never had a Twitter account.
Or despite the fact that I work in a charity teaching and facilitating teaching of the same children covered by affirmative action equivalent in my poor third world country earning bare minimum.
Or despite the fact that I’ve know and participated in research programs aimed at assessing the impact of such measures.
I get that because we’re online, people feel certain freedom to say whatever they want but please be mindful of the fact that a real person is at the other end in the future.
That’s not what they said at all. WTF is wrong with people?
wait until some genius comes here arguing about CeNtRiSm!
This comment section is a riot.
So if someone truly has values that fall on both sides of the aisle, and can tell you what they don’t agree with on both sides, and can admit fault to each side… that makes them Republican?
I’d rather take someone any day that will take a stance on individual issues over just agreeing with what a specific political party says.
Everyone saying in this comment section that you aren’t strictly a Democrat you’re wrong/the problem… are indeed themselves the problem and are kidding themselves.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 20•11 months ago
The left is misguided about certain issues.
The right is outright malicious about just about every issue, and is actively attempting to eliminate all other ideologies, using deception and violence.
That is why both sides are not the same.
Eh…
So while I do agree the extremism is much more dangerous on the right than it is the left… 99% of people don’t fall into these extreme groups anyway.
Maybe that’s just my world view but that’s how it is with people I know/have met in real life.
Both sides argue as if the entire other side is all extremists but the reality is most people fall somewhere in the middle, especially people younger than 50
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 18•11 months ago
I wasn’t talking about extremism. The mainstream right wing is as I described above.
Exhibit A: abortion bans. Exhibit B: election rigging. Exhibit C: crackdowns on LGBT+. Exhibit D: DeSantis literally advocating for slavery.
This isn’t stuff that fringe groups talk about. It’s stuff that mainstream right-wing politicians are actually doing as we speak, and they do it with the votes and approval of the people you know/have met in real life.
So are we talking politicians or are we talking regular citizens? Because there’s a big difference.
I read somewhere that over 80% of Americans were against the total abortion ban, for example. Another is an overwhelmingly majority of the country thinks career politicians are a bad idea, yet neither party does.
The problem is not the average American’s views. Very few are extreme. The problem is our politicians are progressively more extreme.
Most people vote Democrat or Republican and are biased one way or the other. If you want to commit career suicide as a politician, do anything that alienated the party you are closer aligned with. I hear people all the time, whether they voted Democrat or Republican, say aiming along the lines of “I don’t agree with a lot of things about (who they voted for) , but it’s better than the alternative!”
And that, in a nutshell, is why career politicians are killing the US.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 8•11 months ago
So are we talking politicians or are we talking regular citizens? Because there’s a big difference.
No, there isn’t. Regular citizens demonstrate their leanings in who they vote for. If you knowingly vote for a progressive/fascist/communist/theocrat/whatever, then that makes you a progressive/fascist/communist/theocrat/whatever.
I read somewhere that over 80% of Americans were against the total abortion ban, for example.
Then why did they vote for candidates from a party that’s spent the last several decades promising to ban abortion?
Over 80% of Americans may not be willing to directly admit that they want a total abortion ban, but significantly fewer than 80% of Americans are actually opposed to it. That was firmly proven when they voted for the Republicans who passed said ban, and unless there is a blue wave next year, it will be proven once again.
I hear people all the time, whether they voted Democrat or Republican, say aiming along the lines of “I don’t agree with a lot of things about (who they voted for) , but it’s better than the alternative!”
The Republicans want to institute a dystopia of slavery and christofascism, and that’s somehow better than the alternative? No. No, it is not. That’s absurd.
And that, in a nutshell, is why career politicians are killing the US.
What’s killing the US is the extreme cruelty of a significant and growing fraction of its populace. Career politicians are merely doing what the populace wants.
Why, because most people vote for a party and side with a party, not issues.
I’m not saying that’s right, in fact I feel the exact opposite. That’s just my observation of the world we live in in why that disconnect exists.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 7•11 months ago
That’s no excuse. When your side turns evil, you’re supposed to switch sides, not support evil.
I mean… They’re called Representatives right? Because they represent the people?
So, those politicians (Representatives) represent people, yes.
I’m not a Democrat. I’ll never be one. I’m liberal as fuck though and will NEVER vote Republican. I’ll gladly criticize the Democrats and won’t get mad if you shit on them.
I vote for certain stances in a candidate, and how they prioritize them as a rough guide on how I vote. It also depends on what office I’m voting for too, as well as what level of government.
I’m neither left nor right, I’m forward
I’m up. As in high.
Well, that one I can support
And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
not left nor right…but forward??? :0
It’s almost like the other side would have some sound arguments even if their resolution isn’t right or something!
Go infiltrate right wing media. Ask them what they think about Centrism. What y’all need to understand is that Centrism is an umbrella term for all who can’t identify with either side. That means that yes, if you come at a centrist criticizing the right or left or centrist while being the other side, chances are they will never 100% agree with you. Thats how it is. Even within Centrism opposite ideas fight and coexist because thats what defines it: we don’t align ourselves with any side but ourselves alone, even the idea of Centrism, if it exists. To reiterate, Centrism is not the right side, it never was a side, but simply an umbrella term to call “the unaligned”. Well except for Radical Centrism, which is not Centrism, despite its name.
Maybe when we can finally separate ideas from our identities, politics would be remotely constructive from the hellhole it is today.
THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME 😭
I am right-wing, this meme makes me happy.