- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English116•11 months ago
I’ll be honest, the fact that our “justice” system is on the fence about whether or not we should prosecute a former President just shows how much of a fucking sham the entire fucking system is. The fact that the DOJ sat on it at first and only decided to go forward because he kept committing fucking crimes because he can’t help himself is fucking disgusting. They did everything they could to let him go with a slap on the wrist. Fucking sickening.
We may as well still have fucking Monarchy if they’re not willing to actually prosecute prolifically criminal motherfuckers like this.
In other words, yes, I agree with the title. It’s the most important criminal prosecution in US history because finally after 60-some fucking years of non-stop corruption, we’re finally even considering doing something about it.
We’ve never really seen an American President as criminal as Trump before. There is some precedent with Nixon and Clinton, but nothing to the level that Trump did.
That said, this needs to be done.
We’re equating Nixon and Clinton now?
Both had legal troubles during and after their presidencies, indicating some form of precedent.
This isn’t equating or comparing the severity of legal problems, just noting that they existed.
Ice is present in both my glass of water and the Arctic circle, but they otherwise have no similarities. The same is true for Clinton and Trump’s presidencies including their legal troubles.
Just to clarify, they’re equating Clinton and Nixon. Top comment was saying the two of them are nothing like trump at all.
If you want to compare the Clinton and Trump presidencies, you can start with large bags of Saudi cash.
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English16•11 months ago
There’s been precedent with nearly every president since Nixon. I’d maybe leave out Jimmy Carter, but even has skeletons in his closet. Reagan, Bush, Bush II, and Obama all had scandals and criminality that were minimized. I find it odd that people don’t realize that Obama continued some of the worst aspects of the Bush administration. It’s why I pegged it at sixty years. There was absolutely corruption before Nixon, too, but it became more egregious after him.
EDIT: Getting downvotes because I guess people have rosy memories of Obama? Obama told me whose team he was on the second he said “We need to look forward, not backward” at not prosecuting anyone in the Bush admin for lying to the world about WMD’s and leading us into an illegal and wasteful war in the middle east, a war that Obama ramped up drone warfare in. As if that wasn’t a precedent of ignoring Republican crimes that lead us to exactly where we are fucking now with everyone treating Trump with kid gloves. Bush and Cheney are literal fucking war criminals, and people cooed over how cute it was that Bush shared candy with Michelle Obama. Give me a break. That shit is precisely what lead us here, treating war criminals with kid gloves.
He didn’t just ignore Bush’s crimes, he chose to continue them. He actively and consciously chose to continue the Patriot Act, unconstitutional imprisonment of American citizens, unconstitutional surveillance, and unconstitutional and illegal torture. Obama’s presidency was world’s better than Trump’s, but Obama was every bit the authoritarian police-state enforcer as his predecessors.
Honestly, it just goes to show that most American citizens don’t really give a shit about politics. So long as the person in charge has the right letter by their name, that’s all that matters to the majority of the US because then they can go “the guy in charge has the same letter I support and like, they can do no wrong because I can’t be wrong!”
I think most Americans would like to have a system that gives them real choice instead of the political duopoly. We just aren’t there in terms of having viable parties outside of a duopoly because of FPTP. There’s slow movement in the direction, but only very slow.
It shows in this thread that that’s the case heavily…
Also the weird illogical bullshit that “One side is incompetent, one is criminal and actively malicious”… like that’s sufficient… Is it too much to strive for neither of these things? The schism in peoples minds on this matter is absurd.
I think we can say that practically all American presidents in history were despicable human beings.
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English9•11 months ago
Yeah the guys who said “all men are created equal” while giving themselves rights to own other humans as property, and only allowing land-owning white men the right to vote, those guys were “good guys?” Right? Right?? /s
It would probably be more clear to say we had a handful in the middle (like maybe one or two really) who weren’t total complete utter pieces of shit. Like LBJ and maybe Ike (mostly for his farewell address and how prescient it was), but even with the good things they did, they were also pretty big pieces of shit in their own ways.
And even the current president has been found to do about half of what Trump is being brought to court for… Plus the whole nonsense with Hunter. They’re all corrupt crooks that have all undermined our country for their own gains.
Dude! Just saying things doesn’t make them true. Stop blindly repeating easily disproven lies you hear on Fox news.
As soon as you stop believing the easily disproven lies you are getting from The View, MSNBC and CNN. Cool?
I don’t watch fox news. Good try. And if it’s so easily disproven… feel free to go ahead and line by line disprove it.
The obligation is yours to prove your claims, not mine to disprove random wild allegations.
Well known facts that need to be proved. But fine, no problem.
Most of those documents were when he was still a Senator. He should not have had them without the courier to begin with.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149071576/biden-classified-documents-what-we-know
This is actually just as bad, if not worse than what Trump did. But there’s this belligerent bunch of people who can’t parse this fact.
This is an opinion and doesn’t require “facts” to back it up
So how many counts and for what is Trump facing? Hint… it’s literally half of those cases are related to “documents”…
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-donald-trumps-three-indictments-78-felony-charges-1816951
Answer is 78 counts. 37 are documents related. or… 47%… roughly half.
The same shit that Biden has done.
See first link. I can get more if you want… but I think we both know that it’s true.
But there’s this belligerent bunch of people who can’t parse this fact.
https://lemmy.ml/comment/2194169
https://lemmy.world/comment/1989593
https://lemmy.world/comment/1990015You guys are so belligerently dumb about this you can’t even parse that it’s virtually the same laws broken. Just one asshat was also loud about it. You guys have proven the point yourselves, no need for me to source anything else.
Which is the other half of the shit Trump is being charge for… Keep up kid.
See above… where 37/78 is ~50%.
Considering that it’s obvious and clear at this point that the President knew about it… and lied to the public about it. You should care.
This one is fun… https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/analysis-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-shows-firm-took-11-million-2013-2018-rcna29462
https://www.washingtonpost.com/podcasts/post-reports/the-story-of-hunter-bidens-dealings-in-ukraine/Guy has no history of doing the job… Gets sent to do the job in a foreign country. This is obvious nepotism in overseas dealings. Yet Biden has continuously claimed to have no idea about any of his sons foreign dealings. I could provide probably dozens of examples of this including much more recent stuff. But I’m more curious if you’re just going to argue in bad faith.
I’ve read plenty of books.
I’m used to be a College Professor… I’ve WRITTEN books. Let alone how many I’ve read…
Seems that you need some help with education though.
Opinion.
It is literally both sides. And you’re a fucking moron if you believe otherwise.
Self-evident, and snarky response to your bullshit.
Enough evidence for you? I’m not sure how you could be arguing in this thread at all if you didn’t even know about the simple facts I’ve linked here. This isn’t me needing to provide “evidence”… it was you being too fucking lazy to keep up with the discussion overall before injecting your bullshit 2 cents.
- shiveyarbles ( @shiveyarbles@beehaw.org ) English7•11 months ago
It’s not really we the people, it’s the rich people and the service class
Honestly, it seems like just the Republicans and right-wing media are on the fence.
Any other media person and non republican is “charge his ass and if guilty, throw him in a hole”
Hard disagree. Far more than anything else, this is about audience capture and the failure of Burke’s “fourth estate.” What it shows is the efficacy of segregated information ecosystems that have near total audience capture. None of this would be even remotely possible if all Americans lived and swam in the same information ecosystem.
But we don’t, and we are seeing what this means for the health of democracy and the rule of law.
Conservatives, having the luxury of an unquestioning audience that’s fully captured by an information ecosystem that’s fully on-board with anything they say, are not constrained in any way by the truth.
The Press, with a capital P, no longer serves as a check against conservative lies because, due to the nearly complete segregation of information ecosystems, any facts that run count er to the conservative agenda can simply be ignored or twisted, and will accordingly never be seen by a conservative audience at all.
All of which is just to say that while our justice system is imperfect, the real problem is the corruption of Burke’s fourth estate which was always conceived of as necessarily existing in opposition to, or at least as a check against, governmental and private commercial power.
But we don’t, and we are seeing what this means for the health of democracy and the rule of law.
If you’re going to blame multiple news sources/commentators (that all Americans do not swim in the same information ecosystem), wouldn’t it then become a matter of whether or not democracy itself is a viable system?
As in, if the only way a democracy can remain healthy is if all citizen “lived and swam in the same information ecosystem.”, Then how would it be possible to have a democracy? Like, how do we have a free healthy democracy, and enforce the existence of a singular “information ecosystem” at the same time? That sounds impossible.
Reminder that Steve Bannon frankly confessed Trump’s Start the Steal conspiracy plans to a group of Trump insiders before the election.
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/22/1112138665/jan-6-committee-hearing-transcript
…audio from Trump advisor, Steve Bannon, surfaced from October 31st, 2020, just a few days before the Presidential election.
Let’s listen. [Begin Videotape]
STEVE BANNON: And what Trump’s going to do is declare victory, right? He’s going to declare victory, but that doesn’t mean he’s a winner. He’s just gonna say he’s a winner. The Democrats — more of our people vote early that count. Theirs vote in mail. And so they’re going to have a natural disadvantage and Trump’s going to take advantage — that’s our strategy.
He’s gonna declare himself a winner. So when you wake up Wednesday morning, it’s going to be a firestorm. Also — also if Trump is — if Trump is losing by 10 or 11:00 at night, it’s going to be even crazier. Because he’s gonna sit right there and say they stole it. If Biden’s wining, Trump is going to do some crazy shit.
Nixon was the most important criminal prosecution that should have happened. I fully understand the Ford wanted Nixon out of the headlines so he could move on to governing. But at the same time, it established a glow of immunity (even impunity) around even former presidents. In so many ways, Nixon paved the way for Trump, with Reagan and Iran-Contra extending the principle.
Why didn’t they charge him with insurrection?
This is still early in the process, so there may be a superceding indictment that includes that as well. But at this point, I think they’re trying to go for the easy to prove shit to help flip his cronies so they can get an airtight case on it.
I suspect they will; the house recommended it.
So far
That thumbnail is hilarious. It looks like someone put the skin on the mesh the wrong way around.
Yeah how is nobody commenting on this thumbnail? What the fuck am I even looking at?
The first line, "Two and a half years ago, Americans of good conscience… "
I’m sure this won’t be a biased article.
Is it tho?