https://kbin.social/m/modernmisogyny
I ran across that magazine recently and every post is transphobic af. Does that fit within kbin.social’s code of conduct?
No, fascists (which TERFs are) should not be allowed to fester here.
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One is in a cult and engages in fascism apologia, another is a christian dominionist.
About who you’d expect.
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This article is really not convincing.
like, fuck terfs, fuck the anti-trans movement, but the connection between the anti-trans movement and fascism is framed in this suuuuper abstract way that no meaningful definition of fascism would allow. It kind of just makes fascism sound like “statism.”
There are plenty of terfs (again, fuck terfs) who are not calling for government action, but trying to exclude trans women from feminist spaces on non-governmental levels, arguing for a limiting social or academic definition of feminism or of a woman and holding exclusionary events. Fascism is an incorrect label for that behavior.
Furthermore, to call terfs fascists implies that they are generally for other things fascists are for, like a command economy, which I don’t think is common.
And to be clear, there is an overlap between terfs and fascists, and an even bigger overlap between anti-trans people in general and fascists. We all know the Nazis fucked up a lot of good gender research, but they were never pretending to be feminists.
Nope, terfs are fascists.
… did you link to the wrong article by mistake? that article doesn’t really have anything to do with fascism, except insofar as most fascists also happen to be racists.
I could link articles all day but I have better things to do than entertain (presumably) a cis guy while he plays devils advocate about the people who want my friends thrown in camps not being fascists.
that’s literally the first article you linked to. Do you have a point at all? You can link to articles all day, but only two of them, and only one that argues for your point at all, which I’ve already addressed?
I’m not advocating for terfs or fascists, they’re both villains, but to say they’re the same is like saying the KKK and the muslim brotherhood are the same. Just because they’re both evil and there are some common threads between their ideas doesn’t mean they’re the same. I think we should learn how to talk about the terrible groups out there instead of just equating all of them and dancing around our own ignorance. I’m not advocating them, I’m advocating against them as strongly as I can, and you’re promoting ignorance instead of responding to the one damn point I’ve made.
that’s literally the first article you linked to.
Yeah I thought maybe you would read it this time.
I read it, and responded to it. You’ve been ignoring my response because you don’t have an answer to it. So again. The core argument that terfs are fascists is:
To that end, Butler does a good job of laying out that the anti-trans movement ultimately is about strengthening government oversight — restricting access to medical care and generally seeking to ban LGBTQ+ people from the public sphere, which fits pretty neatly into just about every standard definition of fascism. That includes gender critical feminists, the self-professed “leftist” equivalent of the more extreme right-wing fundamentalists.
Which, again:
- Pretends the entire social-focused aspect of the anti-trans movement doesn’t exist, when it obviously does, and there are obviously many, many terfs focused on non-governmental oppression. The article itself describes governmental forms of oppression, but this does nothing to imply that the anti-trans movement is actually all about focusing on government oppression
- identifies an extremely superficial relationship between two positions as both being statist and therefore being the same. The police state is also about increasing government oversight. A command economy is about increasing government oversight. The founding of the CFPB was about increasing government oversight. Having courts is about increasing government oversight. These are not all forms of fascism.
- fails to describe fascism at all. Fascism is a specific thing with a specific definition, it’s not just the idea of having an active government. Fascism is a form of nationalism with a dictatorial government, a strong military focus, a hard command economy that exists to support the state and the military, expansionist policies, suppression of opposition to the government, denigration of the individual in favor of the collective in the form of the state… Now, the terf movement, overall, is doing some of those things, but the article doesn’t reference any of them.
- fails to establish that most terfs, or the core proponents of the terf movement, or terfs in general, are fascists, let alone that a terf is categorically a type of fascists.
If you have a point, then instead of linking to the same article again or linking article that isn’t about fascism, please make your point.
no have no idea what fascists are and just use it as a scare word to attack people you disagree with - grow up.
So you’re saying Helen Joyce’s claim transgender identity is a plot by Jewish billionaires is just her being a concerned citizen asking questions?
That’s a strange side to be defending, friend who made their account yesterday.
I’m just pointing out that the „fascist“ label got thrown around by people like you so inflationary that it lost every meaning or sense, making you sound similar desperate as those you seek to oppose. What this does have to do with the age of my account here is beyond me, on the other hand I sense a hint of alt tech elitism that fits the picture just right.
“People like me”? You’ll forgive if I don’t follow.
And it has a meaning—that they are being fascists—which it maintains.
It’s fascists’ fault they’re being fascists; not mine for correctly labeling it.
People who claim that they are right because they say so will never cease to fascinate me.
You want me to explain why transphobia is bad and should be opposed?
No.
Fuck out of here.
I’m not explaining why antisemitism is bad either.Funny how this escalated from you thinking that the socialpolitical movement of fascism has anything to do with a subtribe of modern, post–liberal 2nd wave feminists all the way to antisemitism - something, that wasn’t even remotely on the table. if you now manage to stir „racism“ into the mix, you can call it a day.
I don’t think @mishmashenjoyer implied that at all. Like, not even close. On any level.
The magazine’s rule #1: NO BIGOTRY omfg I can’t 🤣🤣🤣🤣
“No bigotry against US! TERF is a slur even though we coined it!” Is what they really mean.
I tried to report this magazine using the “contact” page a while back as it violates the kbin.social terms of service, but I guess as long as it’s only one nutjob posting and all the posts are getting disliked, it isn’t really a priority to remove.
Best not to let it fester
Seriously. The dozen or so people subbed there are people I would prefer not find safe haven on Kbin
I also definitely feel like it’s best to take more decisive action against hateful magazines, but I’m just assuming that this is @ernest’s logic: That people can block or clown on bigots until the bigots feel unwelcome, grow bored at the lack of an audience, and leave.
I’ve personally been thinking of migrating to Blåhaj Lemmy because of the inadequate moderation against hateful magazines on this instance, but I’m waiting to see how kbin.social’s administration approach goes long-term. I think it would definitely be worthwhile for Ernest to invest in a bigger admin team and a more democratic approach to administration.
@ernest You should look into that, how is it allowed?
I’ve already sent him a PM about that user & magazine a while ago. Still waiting and hoping to hear / see something.
Edit: I also think this is kinda disappointing. Kbin immediately defederated from nsfwlemmy over some bullshit allegations that weren’t even true. Meanwhile this and other examples of toxicity remain to fester directly on this instance.
I sent him one a few months ago, and it was gone within a few hours. I think he cares, but is swamped and probably gets a ton of BS.
It needs to be acted on though. We don’t want this to become a nazi bar. I hope he can figure out a way to share the load sometime soon.
Agree, I don’t like defederating, why defederate from instance if you can just block it (There on kbin)
Any time I tried to get someone to check out Reddit, I hated having to preface it with, oh and you’re going to want to block these 30 subs, they’re horrible, and here’s another 100 that are kinda gross, I’ll email you my list…
There’s stuff to block, but there’s stuff that should be banned too. I remember recommending some of the SQL reddits to coworkers just weeks before the jailbait crap hit the national news. It’s up to ernest how he wants to run this place, but I hope we don’t let the bar go too low.
Ugh, and 10A somehow also hasn’t been banned yet (and a quick check to his profile shows that he isn’t just still making bad-faith arguments about “free speech” but is also still spreading xenophobia, fake news about the last election, and so on).
I’m out. Anyone know of a kbin (not lemmy) instance with reasonably good moderation?
Our main problem is that the kbin software doesn’t yet support having multiple admins on an instance. Ernest isn’t really able to handle both improving the code and doing instance-wide moderation, so the latter is neglected.
Your best bet for now would be a smaller instance with an active admin, though the overall problem will persist until the right features get added to the software.
This makes me wonder if adding some temporary restrictions to creating magazines here (based on account age or activity?) would be worth it to potentially help slow down ones like this being made (and to help slow down magazine squatting?).
All accounts are relatively young. Kbin has only been live for a few months.
Yeah I’ve only had this account for a few weeks. It just feels like brand new users have too much freedom I guess.
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He actually downvoted this thread. lol
And my comment. In a private window I can see that he replied to my comment as well, despite the fact that I blocked him, so blocks are still not working properly apparently.
They don’t. I had to figure that out with another big kbin troll.
There are not a lot of Kbin instances yet, so it’s hard to say at a glance whether an instance has actually good moderation or if it just doesn’t have enough users to cause trouble to begin with.
Edit: I found a more expansive list of instances and fedi196.gay seems like a good one
IIRC don’t think there’s even way to export data if you want to move instances either . Hope it all gets resolved sooner than later
Indeed. It’s easy enough to back up your posts/threads/comments with “save page as” on each page of your profile, but you can’t automatically transfer your followers, following, subscriptions, or moderated in a migration. You’d have to ask to be re-added as a moderator, have to contact your followers individually, have to add your subscriptions and following one by one to your new account… Has anybody made any sort of third-party tool to make migration easier?
Seems like you can’t even moderate a magazine from another instance 😔
You can’t moderate from another Kbin instance?!
Moderation isn’t federated, afaik. I don’t think it’s federated on any type of Fediverse software.
You can but it basically doesn’t federate back to source instance :|
Would be amazing to see the ability to designate account aliasing or cross-instance moderation so trusted admins / mods could be added to remote instances to assist.
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I’m not expecting perfection, but there hasn’t even been visible commitment to a strong moderation policy. ernst has as far as I can tell remained mostly silent on the matter, occasionally deflecting to “tools aren’t ready yet”, but also not really committing to what he wants to be done with the tools.
10A is a particularly prolific problematic user, and as a single user (unlike the flood of porn spam) it’s a simple matter to ban him. It should not have been a hard decision to make by now.
Personally, a bit over a month ago, I defined banning 10A (as well as one other individual) as the canary that would let me consider recommending other people come here. I was willing to give it some time, but it hasn’t happened yet. Whether this is an explicit policy of weak moderation, or simply an accidental one thanks to putting it at too low a priority, I don’t know. But I don’t particularly want to be on a site that I don’t feel comfortable recommending other people use. So I’m taking my own (lack of) recommendation for now and going to take a long break from this site.
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EH and grad at least were defederated at some point after I signed up, so that does seem to indicate that Ernest doesn’t want those kinds of users/content on here.
I don’t think your stance is wrong though, and you should do what you need to do. Kbin wasn’t ready for the influx of redditors, and we’re seeing the effects of that now. I’m still hopeful that things will get cleaned up eventually, but we’ll see.
BeeHaw looked promising up until a few days ago when this happened:
https://beehaw.org/comment/819474
and the response from the other admins was a lack luster too.
https://beehaw.org/comment/848740
Like how hard would it be to say that the admin’s behavior was unacceptable and it will be discussed internally. It seems clear to me (and most other posters there) that it was a one sided issue.
I’m not really sure where is good. It was nice to see some non-admins speaking up about it, but seeing the other admins circling the wagons when one of them is clearly in the wrong makes me weary of doing any more than lurking. 10A wouldn’t last 5 minutes there, but you have to worry about being berated if you’re not as far left as the admins even if you’re respectful.
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The magazine name is Modern Misogyny and rule 1 is “No bigotry - misogyny…”.
That is like dividing by zero.Right now, it appears to exist only with one user posting to himself. It is not a big problem. However, if you don’t clean these things up quickly, you end up with a Nazi bar. Voat started out very Libertarian, but by the time it closed, its front page was dominated by hard-core antisemitism, it literally became a Nazi hang-out. Tolerance of intolerance ends up allowing the intolerance to spread and become the majority. kbin.social can not end up like that.
Im a former right wing libertarian. The kind of libertarian that voat was. I left because I looked around the libertarian communities I was in and realized I was the only one there who wasn’t anti semitic. You say it started libertarian and became Nazi. Right wing libertarianism IS nazism. They took the good ideas of real libertarianism (left libertarian, anarchism) and layered on shitty capitalism and other fucked up beliefs such as antisemitism and racism. Voat didn’t become Nazi it was always Nazi. Founded because groups like fatpeoplehate and other fucked up subs got banned.
Apparently, almost everything (within the law) is allowed until it generates enough controversy to annoy the admin, in which case it is banned regardless of whether it violated the code of conduct or not.
Well, it violates the Kbin terms of service. Therefore it is being bright to the attention of admin.
“We expect all users to treat each other with respect and kindness. Harassment, hate speech, or any other form of harmful behavior will not be tolerated. We reserve the right to remove any content or user that violates these guidelines.”
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So basically, Reddit.
How does one report a magazine and/or a user? I presume reporting posts in that magazine will just go to the bigoted owner, so no help there.
I don’t want to just block them, I want to know when they’re pushing their bigotry somewhere.
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