It is endlessly frustrating that companies have universally decided that they won’t let people say “no” to stuff, ever. There are no longer options to reject stupid-ass new “features”, only postponement until next time you open the app/website/program. They’ll continue pestering you for the rest of your life. I realize that my frustration may be a little over-zealous, but we deal with these interfaces dozens of times per day and this is user hostile behavior. There isn’t really an option to just use another service or program, since the entire technology landscape has been commandeered by a few major corporations, and they all enact the same shitty things as a group.
You should be pissed off! It’s software paternalism, utilizing new speak, removing your vocabulary and agency.
Every time you’re given a dark pattern dialogue where it says " would you like this thing that you don’t like? Yes absolutely, later " the developers don’t respect you, they’re trying to say you don’t know what you want, they’re using propaganda on you…
It’s like the classic police interrogation question " is that when you stopped beating your wife?" Yes and no are both traps. So some edgy developer is trying to trap you with oh but you consented (can send it) to seeing this later. When it’s really user hostile dark patterns using forced language to remove your agency as a human being. It’s fucking scummy
This is why I love open source software, not only is it highly unlikely for you to see a dark pattern, if you do you can fix it!
No, YouTube. NO. I will NEVER, EVER want YouTube Premium. Stop asking me about it every fucking time I watch a video.
YouTube premium is probably the video streaming purchase I get the most use out of lol.
You’re only saying that because they forced you to buy it!
Actually I’ve had YouTube premium for a few years now and I love it! I use YouTube a lot, but I also then get YouTube Music which I also use A LOT because it’s actually a really good music service.
Music plus ad free YouTube? Video/music background playing? All worth the money to me, and I’m helping keep a service I enjoy alive as YouTube still isn’t profitable. Which also slows enshitification of another product I enjoy.
I want to help YouTube be profitable while I still like it, to
I tried the YouTube music service and I hated it. It would play the low quality BS that people uploaded instead of studio quality recordings from the bands. It also has way too many live versions of the songs. I also didn’t like the interface. My wife and I considered signing up for YouTube premium, but it costs as much as traditional cable. I might as well just get Comcast or something. At least then I could watch baseball without a VPN. But I’m glad you enjoy it.
Having all the live versions of some songs is the best part for me. I love live recordings.
Are you sure you haven’t gotten YouTube Premium mixed up with YouTube TV? The latter is priced like traditional cable because that’s basically what it is; premium is just YouTube with no ads, basic app features that shouldn’t be paywalled in the first place like downloading videos, and YT music thrown in.
The YouTube premium family plan (pairs with more accounts/devices) is a little more expensive at like $23 but I didn’t think that was cable tv expensive. All the full-package cable replacement services I know of are around $70-$90.
If they wouldn’t have that fucked up “same household”-policy for the family plan, I would be all over YouTube Premium. But for me alone it’s too expensive (I don’t use it THAT heavily) and I couldn’t share it with my family that lives in three different places.
Ah yes, I was thinking of YouTube TV.
I’m ashamed to report the same.
Same here. I always said “ain’t no way I’m ever paying for what used to be free!”
Fast forward to political ad season and some orange peckerhead keeps popping up… “Alright, here’s your damn money. Now let me watch this autistic guy unclog drains in peace.”
Because they irritate people into getting it. You wouldn’t have it if they didnt turn features off and increase ads until you wanted it.
Fuck google
I heard it’s one of the better ways to support YouTube creators. That’s why I got it.
I have adblockers and a pihole so ads weren’t that bad anyway.
You don’t want Shorts? Gotcha, we will remind you in 30 days.
I never even knew they suggest those with prompts. I use librewolf/Mull+uBO+yt enhancer for years so I guess it just filter those out. Also, you can convert short to regular videos so that’s cool too
You want to avoid shorts and the algorithm by automatically opening the subscriptions feed? Fuck you, here’s shorts in your subscriptions feed! proceeds to switch to RSS (That’s my journey with YouTube)
Download LibreRube and PipePipe. No ads.
I switched to Nebula as most of the YouTubers I watched most are on there. NewPipe for the few that aren’t. Now I’m spending the time I used to waste watching YouTube contributing to openstreetmap.
I’ve considered getting nebula. Are you also able to comment, like or dislike? Are there custom playlists?
No comments, likes or dislikes or playlists. No recommendation algorithm, just a nice simple video streaming platform with no ads
Every time I go to the ATM to get cash it shows me an ad for a service and the options are “Yes” and “No thanks.”
I am forced to choose one. I am forced to thank them for showing me an ad before they give me my own money.
It would be nice if there was a “fuck-off forever” button.
It’s called a baseball bat.
Jesus where are you from? I never heard of ads in an atm, that scares the sht out of me, something I am trusting my personal data with could end up selling it or using it for ads.
I hate this specifically for one of the corner stores at my house. When I use tap-to-pay (or I assume swiping a card), it gives me a “Would you like to register for our rewards program? Selecting no will not impact your ability to complete this purchase” prompt…
Except then I’m forced to actually physically click “No”, which circumvents the whole point of not having to touch the POS terminal when using tap-to-pay…
Tap to pay isn’t there to stop you from interacting with the terminal though? I mean yeah it was handy during the pandemic to now have to touch things many other people touch but that wasn’t the main idea behind tap to pay.
Yep, my apologies I should’ve been a bit more clear - a lot of stores during the pandemic put up signs saying that they preferred for you to use tap-to-pay as a preventative / safety measure, and this store is one of them.
Of course, even during the peak point of the pandemic that prompt was still there, and is still there… and due to the medication that I’m on I am somewhat immunocompromised so I would prefer to not have to touch the screen since everyone who pays using anything that isn’t cash has to also touch the display.
Ah then yeah that kinda silly. They should at least have a cashier override for that prompt if they are going to brag about not having to touch it.
I don’t think that you’re being overzealous. Far from that - even the phrasing rubs me the wrong way; it conveys "you’re something fooling itself that it has a choice. You don’t - you aren’t a rational human being, you’re a user. Do as you’re being ordered to. The continued pestering adds “You’ll be bossed around until you learn to obey.” to the insult.
On a lighter side I agree with Grouchy that you have options. I think that we should start giving those companies the middle finger. And frankly I think that we’re better off doing so for other reasons - the data vultures love this sort of “non-confrontational on surface, but bossy upon analysis” discourse.
the data vultures love this sort of “non-confrontational on surface, but bossy upon analysis” discourse.
We need a simple name for this, like we have for enshittification or shrinkflation.
It’s a subset of dark patterns.
Yes! It’s a dark pattern microagression.
Perhaps “donkey taming”? Donkeys are often associated with stupidity, but they’re actually rather smart… and stubborn, they don’t do what you want them to do unless you’re really insistent, and slowly lead them the way that you want. What those businesses are doing with users is the same.
Consumer manipulation?
Corporate badgering?
Hmmm… maybe something involving “false dichotomy”, “Sysyphus”, “pestering”, “options”, “forced politeness”, …
- Taleya ( @Taleya@aussie.zone ) 5•11 months ago
Illusion of choice.
Dark Pattern
I hear your frustration, but there are other options. They won’t necessarily be the same, or perhaps equivalent in every way, but they do exist. You don’t have to use the same corporations over and over again.
Do you know of a music streaming service that isn’t Amazon, Apple, YouTube, or Spotify? Because I’ll check it out if you do. In my car I have a thumb drive with my entire lifelong music collection on it, but at work I can’t plug anything into my work computer and need something that is accessible through the internet. I can’t imagine not having music to listen to while coding, I’d eventually lose my mind.
Have you checked out Plex? Host your own steaming server … for years I used a 10yr old Mac Mini.
A streaming server that I can access from my work computer? Like on the web or something? I can’t install Plex on my work computer. I set Plex up about 6 years ago, but then I realized I could just stream my movies and songs onto my home theater system straight from a HDD, so I didn’t get very deep in the Plex configs before I stopped using it.
With Plex you can go to https://app.plex.tv from your work computer and steam from your browser. That said, if you can install software, Plexamp is a great way to listen to and rediscover your music.
Thank you! I’ll set it up this week.
Also have a look at Jellyfin, basically a libre replacement for Plex
I use Koel. https://koel.dev/
Install it at a host of your choice and access it in a web browser or with mobile apps.
Thanks! I’ll check it out.
I hear decent things about Deezer, never tried it myself though.
Deezer is pretty decent.
I’ll check it out. Thanks!
Since I just ranted about the family plan of YouTube: Deezer doesn’t enforce (or even demand) family members to be in the same household. So I have Deezer Family and share it with family members living in three different cities.
Setup a self hosted media server, put your media on it, stream from that.
So what “other option” do I have to stop my kid’s ClassDojo app from badgering me to “upgrade” to “plus?”
Keep in mind that it’s the public school system that chose to use ClassDojo, not me.
And that’s only one out of about half a dozen shitty third-party services with shitty ToSs that the school system has tried to push on me in the last week!
There’s always options.
- Refuse to use the applications and consult with the school board with your concerns. Involve other parents and start a movement.
- Use a different local school system. Is there a local private school that’s better?
- Home schooling is another option.
I’m not saying any of those are easy options. In fact, you may have no good options today. But you don’t need to stay that way forever. Explore what options you could have next year, or the year after. What can you work toward?
At the end of the day, the more everybody gives in and allows the abuse to happen, the move it will be normalized and accepted. If you don’t like what is happening, then make changes in what you accept in your life.
Start holding a grudge against all companies that don’t deserve your respect. If they clearly violate your trust, that bridge just got instantly burned to ashes, and there are no seconds chances.
I actively avoid products that get shoved in my face with ads and sponsorships. NordVPN, SkillShare, Brilliant, Raid Shadow Legends, fucking whatever can all go to hell. I wanna watch my videos in peace and they annoy me.
If a company is is pushing their product that hard, there might be something wrong. Perhaps the company behaves like a psychopath, the product sucks, or both.
Also, consider installing the sponsor block plugin. Not too long ago there was a good post that listed all the essential plugins like that. That post proves to me that I don’t need Reddit any more. I’ve already got what I need right here in Lemmy.
you should use SponsorBlock to block the sponsors, I’ve saved over a day of my life using it.
Oh, I do. Probably for years longer than necessary.
But for such a thing as the “Not now” button and there wont barely be software left.
The tech market slowing after the end of Covid really showed these greedy fucks for who they are. Profits dropped and they all pulled out the enshittification dial for a big old twist.
Like, can’t you just deal with being slightly less insanely rich for a few minutes?
I think it was Vanderbilt who answered the question of “how much money is enough” with “more”. Billionaires have a hole in their soul. No amount of money will fill it, but that doesn’t stop them from trying.
I suspect for most of them it’s not even about how much money they have so much as it is about optimising the rate of growth of their wealth. IE, they don’t care so much about the total amount they have so much as the amount they have coming in.
I believe it’s a human thing. I’ve heard the term “hedonistic treadmill” where what you once wanted becomes “meaningless” once you have it and now you’re looking to the next thing to obtain.
The ultra wealthy wanted money, but now they “won” capitalism and need more because it literally is never enough. This goes for you and me too though, if we became billionaires we’d be looking for “what’s next?”
I disagree with your assertion that you and I would succumb to endless greed if given a large sum of money. Not everyone is built like that. Look at Tom from MySpace. He was offered hundreds of millions of dollars (not billions) for his website, took it, and fucked off to Africa to take a bunch of pictures. He pursues his hobbies now, and isn’t focused on obtaining more money he’ll never spend. He could have revamped his platform, put Facebook out of business, and pursued endless data and control, but that’s not what he was about, and I don’t think that is what most people are about. The billionaires who never have enough are broken. Something inside them is wrong.
They are legally obliged to, lmao. After companies become public, they have to maximize profits, if not, shareholders can simply vote to fire whomever they want. Look at every company on earth. They all with the same road. from facebook, google, to soon-to-be-public reddit.
That is not true, since not annoying your users can mean a long time profitability
You are correct, but unfortunately, this is what happens in reality.
When? Give me examples
I don’t know if this is oversimplified. Probably is. But this is my understanding of it too.
It’s more than an individual greed problem. It’s a systemic mandatory greed problem.
It think it became “mandatory” when we removed pensions from the equation and tied “everyones” retirement savings to The Market™©® so we need companies to be considerate of their stock price as it’s often our retirement that depends on it.
Nothing like a loaded gun put to our future foreheads to make us go along with some more bullshit…
Well put
Yes, it is simplified. But basically this is what happens every time. The pattern is the same.
“Fun” fact, Facebook isn’t a good example here because Zuckerberg has his shares structured so he has full control.
Free Software is the only solution to this in the long run.
2020s big tech web platforms have a certain language to them that makes me think of a passive aggressive Californian dudebro designing them. It’s not “No”, it’s “Maybe later”; it’s not “OK” it’s “Got it” et cetera
In the eighties, it was acknowledged that since the fifties the viewing public are more resistant to commercials and marketing, outpacing their new techniques (more commercials, engaging commercials, obnoxious commercials, product placement, having whole shows that are one big commercial, etc.)
One factor is as marketers hard-sell middle age men, they’re also immunizing their kids and grand kids who grow up skeptical of anyone saying anything nice lest they’re trying to sell something.
This also likely figures into the attendance crises experienced by religious ministries as old parishioners age out and new ones realize they don’t have time for spirit or money for tithes.
This is just one of a hundred reasons to avoid proprietary software. The only power we have to change the behavior of closed software is not using it.
Nowadays it’s even in cars. When service is due, my car offers me to call service desk to schedule an appointment now or later. To get rid of this message, I need to make the call just to tell the person on the other side that this is a company car, I’m not the owner, and service is being scheduled by the leasing company through other means anyway.
Usually Fleet Management companies want you to do an Oil Change and Tire Rotation every 5000mi. So… Yeah.
“Do you want to try the new Lemmy™ Story Experience? Click here or remind us now to keep reminding you until you finally cave to our humungous data-hoovering tentacles, puny little user.”
Microsoft: “Please use Edge!”
Me: “No thanks!”
Microsoft, 6 months later: “Please use Edge!”
Me: “No, thanks.”
Microsoft, when I visit Bing: “Please use Edge.”
Me: “No. Thanks.”
Microsoft, when I open Outlook: “We will be opening links in Edge instead of your default browser. To switch back, go to your preferences.”
Me: “Motherfucker, I think we have a difference in viewpoints.”
Yep, super annoying and you will get the same thing, but for Chrome, when hitting Google sites in Edge or Firefox.
I’ve yet to accept Whatsapp’s new (2020) terms of service. App still works. So I consider it a small, petty victory for me
Nice!