What did you get and for how much? To me it seems the framework (at least the 16) is only a bit (100-200 out of 1600) more expensive than laptops with similar specs.

Agreed, a lot of people get into sustainability and rush out to buy sustainable stuff. Even with something like a plastic bag, it’s better to use it for as long as you reasonably can than to throw it away and rush out to buy an organic cotton one.

Hey there, fellow 2017er! Different worlds, I know, but I’m just finding out my specific model 2017 MacBook Pro–the 13" without a “touchbar”–was the last model with a replaceable SSD, so I’m about to upgrade it to 2TB. Eventually I’ll probably replace its battery, but, for now, I’m even pretty happy with the remaining battery capacity. I’m just hoping it keeps working long enough for the right-to-repair movement to force Apple back to replaceable wear-and-tear parts (particularly SSD and battery) before I have to decide whether to choose between a completely unserviceable replacement model or switching platforms again.

It sucks completely if you try to use it in different way so if you don’t like magic mouse (which sucks) and don’t like using their laptop keyboard (which sucks) and touchpad you will not enjoy it.

This isn’t true for me. I use the same (cheap Logitech) mouse with Win11, Linux, and my MBPs. What’s meant to be the issue? It’s just like every other setup I’ve used in the last 30 years.

Is this what you are talking about?
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/auto-color-management/

OS level colour calibration and management, regardless of the app?
New feature in Windows 11 2022.

I own recent OLED Zenbook and it’s super creaky squeaky, plus, the screen unglued itself from the frame. The build quality isn’t very good I’d say.

I’ve used Macs for a while, but I’d take Frameworks over Macs now. The fun at the start of having a mac is not worth all the hassles that come down the line when things start failing and can’t be fixed.

I take issue with some of the statements here. First of all:

I find this whole “right to repair” really pointless endeavour pushed by repair shops wanting to retain their outdated business model.

Right to repair is definitely not just being pushed by repair shops. If you take a good look at the rate Framework is selling devices at (batches instantly sold out until Q1 2024), you’ll see that consumers want this more than any other group. We, as the consumers will ultimately benefit the most from having repair options available. Right to repair is not meant to halt innovation, it is not about forcing manufacturers to design products in ways detrimental to the functioning of said products. It is about making sure they don’t lock third parties out of the supply chain. If you replace a traditional capacitor with a SMD variant, someone is going to learn to micro solder. If you convert a chip from socketed to BGA mount, someone is going to learn how to use a heat plate and hot air gun to solder it back in to place.

The main problem is manufacturers demonstrably going out of their way to prevent the feasable.

The second part I take issue with is this:

It is probably better use of our collective resources to focus on researching technologies that will help us deconstruct these tiny components into their constituent matters

From my 12 years of experience in design of consumer goods and engineering for manufacturing I can tell you this is not happening because no one is going to pay for it. The more tightly you bond these “constituent matters” together, the more time, energy, reasearch and money it will require to convert them back into useful resources.

There is only one proper way to solve this problem and it is to include reclamation of resources into the product lifecycle design. Which is currently not widely done because companies put profits before sustainability. And this model will be upheld until legislation puts a halt to it or until earth’s resources run out.

In terms of sustainability the desireable order of action is as follows:

• reduce: make it so you need less resources overall
• prolong: make it so you can make do as long as possible with your resources. this part includes repair when needed
• reuse: make it so that a product can be used for the same purpose again. this part includes repair when needed
• repurpose: make it so that a product can be used for a secondary purpose
• recycle: turn a product into resources to be used for making new products
• burn: turn the product into usable energy (by burning trash in power stations for example)
• dispose: usually landfill

I can see an eventual future when the cores, RAM and storage are all on one IC or something which would also be great for performance (I just bought a desktop processor that does some clever stacking of extra L3 cache on top of the cores). As others said though we’re not quite there yet.

Ever since Steve Jobs (I think perhaps as a way of coping with illness making him thinner himself) Apple has done this thing of telling consumers that they want thinner, thinner, thinner at all costs (and other manufacturers following Apple because of course they do) but I’ve seen no real evidence of consumers actually wanting this. I for one (and I know I’m far from the only one) don’t actually mind a bit more thickness if it means a bigger battery, using an M.2 slot (oh no a few mm difference) etc.

This sounds like it’s better to wait for imaginary benefits than do the things we really can do. Anyway, there is absolutely no reason not to repair things even if you want your scifi disassembler. Our collective resources are not strained in the slightest by repairs.

In the very long term you are right. The thing is we aren’t there yet. Lots of companies are making things unrepairable for no reason right now. This is at a time when we need to produce less stuff to help the environment.

I might agree with you if the boards themselves were disposable. If a high end macbook were $300 then sure, just get a new one. But they’re $2000 or more just for an “ok” model. At that price they should be repairable.

I think people’s anger stems from the fact that it wouldn’t be hard for laptops to be repairable and in fact Apple’s putting in additional roadblocks over time to make repairing harder. At the very least, having broken components be removable would do a lot for hardware lifespan.

I mean, you were never blocked from replacing ICs. Most people just didn’t have the capability to solder. Today, IC replacement is blocked by hardware DRM.

It’s nothing new. Have you ever opened up a laser disc player or discman from 1989? Extremely intracate parts Ave mechanisms that are nearly impossible to work with.

Even a basic VCR or DVD drive has a ton of small moving parts which are difficult or impossible to fix and designed to break early and often.

Technology doesn’t proliferate as quickly as you’d expect. Most people aren’t on the cusp of the latest and greatest. I worked for a fucking multibilliondollar international company 2 years ago, and they still pick product, and communicate inventory adjustments with pen and paper.

People rely on the previous shit they’ve bought.

… try using a Macbook touchpad and then any other one after it.

^ This.

Have been given a current Surface Pro laptop for work and must use an external mouse, or rage in frustration that my 13 yo MBP has a better functioning trackpad.

try using a Macbook touchpad and then any other one after it

I have a Dell laptop from 8ish years ago whose touchpad behaves pretty much identically to an Apple touchpad.

Software support for touchpad gestures on Linux is pretty lacking, but that’s not the hardware’s fault.

I didn’t say it, but I thought it.

You talking about “crushing” the Apple laptops is missing the point. Performance isn’t the main reason people buy them, it’s things like the TrackPad, software, battery life, and overall usability.