cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1476531
Archived version: https://archive.ph/r4ZKz
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230815100118/https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/08/14/muslim-women-harassed-at-northern-italian-beach-for-wearing-modest-clothing
“How dare muslims tell women what to wear, we want to be the ones who tell them what to wear.”
- Fazoo ( @Fazoo@lemmy.ml ) 12•1 year ago
Pretty much my thoughts. Who the hell is gate keeping a public beach? Europeans are whacked out. Banning burkinis was beyond moronic, and now this?
I don’t think this is about “Europeans” so much as it’s about ignorance.
Europeans actually working in the space of migrant women’s human rights have pointed out that mainstream society imposing restrictions on their clothes just makes it harder for them to participate in social spaces and be part of the wider society.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) English24•1 year ago
Funny. Normally right-wingers are trying to force women to wear more clothing. These same knuckle draggers were no doubt beside themselves in outrage when the bikini was first invented.
This is just prejudice mixed with ridiculousness. Yes covering head to toe seems weird based on western culture. But it doesn’t hurt anything at all, there are certainly no hygiene issues. Do these people know what’s in the ocean? Everything, that’s what, you name it, it’s in there. A bit of cloth isn’t going to affect the ocean .00000000000001%.
Except… That’s not how the ocean works? There are localized effects to pollution. You can test this by spilling oil in your nearest ocean. Watch how it disperses, and watch how it doesn’t actually disperse that far away from you because of currents and whatnot.
Not justifying the OP, but your statement is really inaccurate.
You can test this by spilling oil in your nearest ocean.
Okay, but I’m telling the authorities it was your idea.
When did beachwear rules become more than “if you are of age, cover your private parts (unless its a nudist beach)”? What the age is and what “private parts” mean changes from culture to culture, of course.
chauvinist wojack: they don’t know they’re being oppressed
- Chipthemonk ( @Chipthemonk@lemm.ee ) English8•1 year ago
Burkas need to go. Women should have equal rights to men. Modern Islam interpretations don’t believe in equal rights and many women are forced to cover up. Fuck that. As more people come into the west seeking something better, they need to abandon some of their culture that is retrogressive. Burkas as retrogressive. It’s weird how many in the west, particularly on the far left, think it’s important to maintain burkas. I think a person should be able to wear whatever they want, fundamentally, but I’m confident that many of these women didn’t choose to cover up their whole life.
I know it’s just an anecdote, but I’ve know quite a few Muslim women that prefer to wear it. I’ve also met many who don’t like to wear them. Is it really fair to ban it for the ones that actually choose to wear it?
Women choosing to dress conservatively isn’t exactly something foreign to Italians. Let’s not forget that nuns also wear very similar clothing and cover their hair. That’s not so different from a hijab.
Banning the burqa is limiting agency just as much as mandating it. Yeah, I think veiling etc. is honestly a stupid and ridiculously misogynistic custom, but I don’t think the fix is just another rule to limit women’s autonomy, but in a different way than before.
But we should ban leopard print clothing.
- PorkRollWobbly ( @ComradePorkRoll@lemmy.ml ) 2•1 year ago
And mandate overalls. Just overalls. Nothing underneath.
- Chipthemonk ( @Chipthemonk@lemm.ee ) English2•1 year ago
I’m happy to ban religious veils like nun hats (whatever they are called) and burkas/burqas as problematic religious symbols of misogyny. These religious relics are embedded deep into a culture and that part of the culture is misogynistic and discriminatory.
I don’t know, but I would bet many of the women that “prefer” wearing them prefer it because they believe they would be shunned otherwise from their support system. They “prefer” it in part because they don’t know anything different, and their own community has enforced it as soon as they went through puberty. What does it even mean to prefer something when you haven’t ever experienced not wearing it for an extended time without all your local support group shunning you? Is that really a preference?
But you can’t tell me these things are always comfortable. They look miserably uncomfortable in many situations and must cause a lot of undue heat and such. But the culture that forced these women to wear them runs deep. That part of culture needs to be eradicated.
We should also ban long hair.
I’m sure plenty of women only prefer to have long hair because they think they would be shunned or stan out if they cut it short.
I’m all for people getting to wear their hair like they want, but I’m confident that many women would actually prefer to wear their hair short, and so can’t be trusted to make that choice for themselves or express an honest opinion about it.
The first step in women’s liberation is making it clear that they lack agency and that other people know what’s best for them.
Who gives a shit what people wear? Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it should be banned. People like to cry about the nanny state and then go all in for regulating things that personally offend them yet ultimately cause no harm.
Devil’s advocate, but by that logic you’d be good with people wandering around with swastikas proudly displayed?
For my opinion, I don’t think banning clothing or telling women what to wear is the answer but religious items are definitely symbols of sometimes very sexist ideologies. I just wish true equality was achievable so these stupid conversations and laws didn’t exist. Honestly, I don’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about it, though.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The right-wing mayor of the small town of Monfalcone in Friuli-Venezia Giulia wrote a letter to the Muslim community saying the territory shouldn’t accept the “Islamization” of their customs and to respect the region’s rules on beachwear.
The Italian constitution guarantees full freedom to its citizens but several governments, largely in the north of the country, have attempted to ban various types of head coverings over the years.
In 2006, the Regional Administrative Tribunal of Friuli-Venezia Giulia ruled that the mayor of Trieste could not ban head coverings for security reasons under the 152/1975 because it violated people’s religious freedoms.
The 152/1975 anti-terrorism law states that people cannot wear masks or motorcycle helmets in public to evade identification.
This law has been cited multiple times as cause for banning religious head and face coverings in the northern regions of Friuli-Venezia Giulia and Lombardy, whose regional and local governments have historically been controlled by either the right-wing Forza Italia party or the far-right Lega party.
In 2021, the European Court of Justice ruled that people who work with the public who refuse to remove their hijab or other religious or ideological clothing could be fired from their job in order to present a “neutral image towards customers or to prevent social disputes.”
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i live in a country of clowns
Wisdom: If you’re the only one wearing a burkini you’re the immodest extremist in the mix drawing attention to yourself.
The definition of “modest” changes over time and is highly cultural and situational.
Harassing a woman to dress like everyone else as to avoid attention is no better than telling a woman what she has to wear. You’re literally just doing the exact same thing as is done to these women but in the reverse. Just let people wear what they want to wear.
As long as it doesn’t infringe on anyone’s rights people should be free to wear whatever they like without being harassed. Plus too much sun heightens the risk of skin cancer so covering up is actually the smart choice.
yeah. as long as you arent putting yourself, and thus rescue personal, at risk it shouldnt matter. like if someone wanted to swim in a down jacket id hope people would try and stop them as thats dumb.