Fun fact about going below 0 HP: Third Edition D&D tracked that. At 0 you were staggered, below that unconscious, and at -Con Score negative HP you died.
This being D&D 3.x (3.0/3.5/Pathfinder 1e), there were abilities that extended that limit, abilities that let you stay conscious below 0 HP. I’ve seen someone play a build that was always at negative HP, with a limit of something like -300 before dying, and got bonuses for being in the negatives.
It is worth noting that the -Con score was a 3.X house rule but Pathfinder 1e raw. It was just -10 otherwise, which could get pretty punishing if you were dropped by bad luck.
5e’s up-and-down approach to unconsciousness isn’t really an ideal resolution, although making them gain levels of fatigue almost makes it functional.
Savage Worlds does this right with wounds. Anything under a great success leaves the character shaken, so that they must save of lose their turn. Every wound is a cumulative -1 on all rolls. 4 wounds and you’re out of the fight.
In Traveller, your stats are your HP, so as you lose HP, your physical stats degrade until you are dead. HP doesn’t increase, so bloat doesn’t become an issue.
Cypher system has a similar mechanic. You have 3 basic stat pools, and apply “effort” from them to make your tasks easier (i.e. lower difficulty of skill checks). These pools are also your “HP” and are reduced by different types of damage. When a pool is emptied you are debilitated in some way, when all 3 are empty you die.
You can really feel your effectiveness lessen throughout an adventuring day, and it makes your life total more of a resource to manage.
Yeah, I remember that. I didn’t like how it felt tbh. Spend 3 points to get a what, +4 on a d20 roll? That feels real bad when the d20 rolls high and didn’t matter or rolls low and doesn’t matter. And it doesn’t matter 4/5 of the times so at the end of an adventuring day if you spent all your might on bonuses it could only pay off once.
I mean sure, you get discounts as you level up, and yes, it really pushes you to use cyphers to actually solve problems, as trying for things directly was always a toss up, and that does push you towards the main themes of exploiting random artifacts all the time but I still didn’t like it.
Does that encourage more of a death-spiral? It makes more sense that a 100% hp and 1% hp person wouldn’t be at the same effectiveness. But once you start downgrading one side’s effectiveness, it can snowball.
That is true! Combat in Traveller is meant to be quick, deadly, and avoidable at all costs. It encourages strategy because a fair fight could just as easily end up a TPK.
We used to say if you get in a fight in Traveller you already fucked up.
I prefer the original hit point system where 1 hit point means getting hit with one 14 inch shell. Considering this I’d say few living things have more than one hp.
“Shell?” Like “turtle shell” or “fired from a canon shell”?
Its “fired from a cannon shell”. The system was made as a military war game.
It’s-a me, confederate soldier
“You attempt to dodge the ogre’s attack but fail. Ok, so now you gotta take out the medical dummy and see if you’re still conscious after taking a 20 pound wooden club to the side of your head at 45mph.”
Genuinely, I like how Ironclaw (Squaring the Circle) does it; attacks and dodges are skill checks, like anything else, how well an attacker succeeds determines which status the victim receives. Low successes only make them Hurt (with its status ailments) which a high enough roll makes them Dying or Dead (again, just statusses you inflict)
I think it’s a cinematic, intuitive, yet powerful and scalable mechanic!
Sounds like the exact same thing, just slightly more abstracted. How many hurts is a dying?
No it’s a status condition, either you’re Hurt or you’re not.
It’s a debuff, that makes it easier for others to attack you/inflict bigger statuses on you
I don’t understand what this graphic is saying, but I agree
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We used to have an angel of death once you hit a certain number of negative hit points, like you would lose you intestines or a limb that would have a negative effect that would stay until a regeneration spell was cast
Complex logical systems for PnP are just boring tbh. It’s always stalling the adventures and encourages tryharding.
I prefer people just being in the moment with a simplified system.
In that system what does combat look like? You can just narrate that the players hit the monsters with swords. But most people and monsters won’t die in 1 hit. Or if they do, that’s rocket-tag.
I’m not saying you should have no combat system at all. I just think many take too long to learn and are too complex, if flow and a rounded experience is more important to you e.g.
Legend of Zelda’s Navi would like to have a word with you… (BEEP BEEP!)
Well I for one like being a fierce warrior with a huge number representing endurance, who remains completely unbothered and fights with full power even when covered in arrows, up until the final hit lands. Realism? pfft!
Is that scarasm or are you serious ?
nah, sarcastic. just came up in chat, and someone was complaining about HP complexities, when it was mentioned that someone should make an HP version of the “stop using math” meme. Thus here we are.
I dunno what WoD uses, but it aint 100% HP.
I don’t mind the health and hit point system is Cataclysm. Health is a hidden stat that has all kinds of things contributing to it from disease progression to vitamin deficiencies. Each limb has its own hit point value that effects their functionality. Where 0 hp would mean a broken and useless arm but torso or head reaching 0 will end in immediate death.
That actually sounds very similar to the health mechanics in Rimworld.
It’s possible that you would appreciate Cataclysm for its similar attention to detail to somewhat realistic simulation.
