I’ve noticed in the Linux community whenever someone asks for a recommendation on a laptop that runs Linux the answer is always “Get a Thinkpad” yet Lenovo doesn’t seem to be a big Linux contributor or ally. There’s also at least six Linux/FOSS-oriented computer manufacturers now:

So what gives? Why the love for a primarily Windows-oriented laptop when there are better alternatives?

  • Corroded ( CorrodedCranium@leminal.space ) English
    154·
    3 years ago

    It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.

    It’s been a while since I’ve looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.

    • smoothbrain coldtakes ( canis_majoris@lemmy.ca ) 
      50·
      3 years ago

      Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.

    • IsoKiero ( IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz ) English
      13·
      3 years ago

      I can confirm this with personal experience. Wife has T470 (if memory serves, something around that) for 100€. That was from previous work and they offered my old laptop for cheap, so it doesn’t really count as average, but not uncommon either at least around here. I got myself T495 a while ago for 299€ from “public” market and have been purchasing couple years old thinkpads for decades now. There’s plenty of those available, they work just fine for the workload we have for laptops (I got a separate desktop for more power hungry applications) and they’ve proven to be pretty reliable workhorses since the brand was owned by IBM.

      Framework specially is really interesting approach and I’d love to test to their hardware, but they don’t have Finnish keyboard available just yet and I can get several used thinkpads for the price of one framework, so as long as I’m using my own hard earned money I rather spend it on a known brand where I already know what I’m getting into and spend considerably less money while doing so.

      Also with linux thinkpads tend to work just fine or at least there’s documentation and howtos to get everything working.

    • Chinzon ( Chinzon@beehaw.org ) English
      9·
      3 years ago

      I also agree with this sentiment. I got a used t440p which I used for years in school before upgrading to the framework 13. I still love my old thinkpad, but its now my cheap in home media server. I would agree that old thinkpad are easy to find and a cheap (but still very useable and still to some extent repairable) option for work and school.

    • ikiru ( ikiru@lemmy.ml ) 
      3·
      3 years ago

      Maybe there’s a better place for this question, but how do you make sure a used laptop is safe? Or would removing Windows and installing Linux be enough?

      I want to buy a laptop for Linux, and would buy a used one so that it’s cheaper but I have to admit I worry about it. I know one could be worried even about new laptops and what manufacturers could be up to, but I feel like the unknown arbitrariness of a used laptop gets to me.

        • variants ( variants@possumpat.io ) English
          4·
          3 years ago

          this is what Im going through right now haha, found a old laptop in our ewaste but the bios is locked, watching a few videos on how to reset the bios I have to take the whole thing apart to short out two pins, might be worth it but it is definitely a project for another day

        • Pantherina ( Pantherina@feddit.de ) 
          1·
          3 years ago

          No shit installing Linux on an Acer (even though the hardware is horrible and doesnt support Linux) was way easier than on my T495. Also the Uefi is sooo damn slow, I can only imagine what proprietary hell they put in there. The Acer Uefi is 2s, the Thinkpad Uefi is like 7s its crazy, slower than booting Linux.

  • lckdscl [they/them] ( lckdscl@whiskers.bim.boats ) English
    57·
    3 years ago

    Because of better accessibility. How so?

    Because not everyone has the money to afford these new and expensive laptops designed for a niche market. They are still enthusiast-grade products, the prices speak for themselves.

    Because not everyone comes from Europe / the US, so it’s not easy to find these with affordable shipping.

    Because these laptops are only normally offered new, which, for responsible and personal ownership, is excessive. There are thousands of used hardware lying around, why not put some life back into them instead?

    It comes down to price, availability and ethical concerns. Unless money doesn’t mean anything to you, why do you need a $1000 laptop when someone wants a device for higher education or personal casual use? The world doesn’t need more rampant marketing of niche, hyped-up tech. While a fully-FOSS system may be the ideal machine for every Linux enthusiast, we live in a material world with finite resources and chasing after some unicorn laptop is unsustainable.

      • Dudewitbow ( dudewitbow@lemmy.ml ) 
        3·
        3 years ago

        yes. Companies goal is to essentially take in e-waste and used stuff, sort through it and pull out decent laptops/desktops wipe(or destroy) hard drive based on instructions, and resell. The company that gives us the goods gets a cutback of what’s being sold. everything else that is junk is then sorted and recycled to their respective correct facilities. Gotta use the second R in the 3 R’s and the third for whatever is considered old. What’s considered old goods is still very desirable to another company, especially companies outside of the U.S where computers may be more expensive, especially when you’re trying to get them in bulk.

        the work laptop I use is definitely used goods, in fact relevant to thread as it is a 8th gen Thinkpad T490.

          • Dudewitbow ( dudewitbow@lemmy.ml ) 
            2·
            3 years ago

            very rarely sell in quantities of one, but usually some of the end clients are resellers. If you’re ever like on Amazon and find refurbished dell desktops, or any laptop in general (including apple products), there’s a decent chance it came from an e-waste organization first before being bought by a reseller in bulk. There are some companies who “bling” old desktops and resell them in the market place.

  • Double_A ( Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de ) 
    30·
    3 years ago

    Cost and availability.

    Most of those laptops cost over 1000€ if not even closer to 2000. And they don’t seem to ship to all countries.

    While you can get a good used Thinkpad for 500€ everywhere in the world.

  • circuitfarmer ( circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org ) 
    28·
    3 years ago

    Cost.

    Older Thinkpads remain extremely capable and (crucially) highly repairable. The T series in particular is also better built (read: more solid chassis) than many others, including some on this list.

    It doesn’t make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.

    • eldavi ( eldavi@lemmy.ml ) 
      2·
      3 years ago

      It doesn’t make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.

      1. bios updates leaves you at the mercy of the manufacturer;
      2. not every bios and distro works w lenovo’s bios update utility;
      3. and your battery life & performance has a big dependency on your bios so using something that it’s not designed to handle (eg anything that’s not windows) will result in less than optimal results. 3.5) same goes for hardware eg nvidia
      • circuitfarmer ( circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org ) 
        10·
        3 years ago

        I’ve had 4-5 such systems running Linux and never experienced any issues with BIOS.

        Obviously you shouldn’t get a model using nvidia if you want to run Linux on it (unless you are aware of the extra time it takes to set up and the other pitfalls). I do actually have a T440p with a 730m in it – and it’s fine, I just run the open-source driver.

  • tekeous ( tekeous@apollo.town ) English
    27·
    3 years ago

    The only good system on that list is the framework and it’s $2800 for my ideal version.

    Last year’s Thinkpad P-series goes for around $400 on eBay.

  • Mane25 ( Mane25@feddit.uk ) English
    21·
    3 years ago

    First of all I wouldn’t use a pre-installed OS (I would always wipe and install my own for security reasons).

    Secondly: Thinkpads (at least when I bought mine, last year) let you buy them without an OS and don’t charge you for it.

    Thirdly: the linked manufacturers above tend to be either US-centric and/or more expensive than Thinkpads.

  • BURN ( BURN@lemmy.ml ) 
    19·
    3 years ago

    I have no dog in this fight, but of the brands mentioned, I’ve heard of 1, and I consider myself fairly techy. Lenovo is a brand name that most people are going to recognize and implicitly trust (whether they should or not)