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Blaze ( Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de )  to Fediverse@lemmy.ml ·
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3 years ago

Poptalk.scrubbles.tech is going down temporarily due to fear of federating CSAM

lemmy.world

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Poptalk.scrubbles.tech is going down temporarily due to fear of federating CSAM

lemmy.world

Blaze ( Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de )  to Fediverse@lemmy.ml ·
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3 years ago
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Sad post, going down for a while - Lemmy.world
lemmy.world
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Hey all, first of all I love you all for being here, this started as a small side project and ballooned into a fun area to talk about pop music. Sadly, I have to take the site down for a while while I rethink how I host. Currently, this site is hosted on my own hardware, on my own network. Something that was never an issue, I had some protections around it to keep it safe. I won’t go into all details, but yesterday someone on another instance uploaded some extremely vile child content that federated to several other instances. Ours was not affected (luckily), but to be safe I purged everything from the last 24 hours. Unfortuanately, this will be a growing trend, and Lemmy devs haven’t done much to protect instance owners. If someone uploaded something like that to a different instance that we subscribed to, technically I would also be hosting that data. (Federation is cool, but it means we are all hosting it), which means the feds could come and beat down my door for hosting it. In the short term, I’m going to let this go out so others can see it, but I’m hoping it’ll be federated for other users while I convert over. Step 1 is that I cannot host this locally, I need to get it off my network and into the cloud. Steps 2, 3, 4, and on are going to be adding protections so stuff can’t ever get in in the first place, integrating tools, and probably working with the lemmy developers on ways to prevent it in the first place. I don’t know how long we’ll be down, but unfortunately someone else ruined it for all of us for a bit. I’ll do my best to come back up soon while I shore up our ingest. -Your swiftie admin, Scrubbles

https://poptalk.scrubbles.tech/c/poptalkmeta

(The site is already down, and my instance wasn’t subscribed, so I can’t properly link, hopefully the bot will help).

Link from LW: https://lemmy.world/post/3979585

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  • argv_minus_one ( argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) Banned
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    3 years ago

    Fascist shutdown of public discourse, step by step:

    1. Find out where public discourse is.
    2. Post child porn on an obscure corner of it.
    3. Take screenshots of the posted porn.
    4. Send law enforcement to seize all the things.
    • gabe [he/him] ( gabe@literature.cafe ) 
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      3 years ago

      They are a dumbass if they do this cause they will get prosecuted themselves for posting that. There’s a safe harbor provision for server admins so long as they make a good faith effort to report when it is brought to their attention (at least in the US). So long as you are doing your due diligence as a web host, you should be fine.

      • argv_minus_one ( argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) Banned
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        3 years ago

        I’m talking about when the government wants an excuse for shutting down public discourse. Obviously it isn’t going to prosecute itself.

        • Zorque ( Zorque@kbin.social ) 
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          3 years ago

          They have much less roundabout ways of shutting things down if they really want to.

          • NumbersCanBeFun ( NumbersCanBeFun@kbin.social ) 
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            3 years ago

            deleted by creator

        • squiblet ( squiblet@kbin.social ) 
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          3 years ago

          imo it’s more likely that some agitator dickweed would do that than a government. Both are conceivable, though.

          • m_r_butts ( m_r_butts@kbin.social ) 
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            3 years ago

            deleted by creator

            • squiblet ( squiblet@kbin.social ) 
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              3 years ago

              ha! Yes!

        • Sorchist ( Sorchist@kbin.social ) 
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          3 years ago

          Ah yes, it was all a false flag, instigated by the government to take away our freedoms, I get it

          • WtfEvenIsExistence ( WtfEvenIsExistence@lemmy.ca ) 
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            3 years ago

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#Dispute_about_Van_der_Lubbe’s_role

      • Neuromancer ( wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee ) 
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        3 years ago

        deleted by creator

        • gabe [he/him] ( gabe@literature.cafe ) 
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          3 years ago

          Whatever dumbass decided to upload that shit should be watching their back honestly

          • Neuromancer ( wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee ) 
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            3 years ago

            deleted by creator

      • KSP Atlas ( KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz ) 
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        3 years ago

        Also screenshots of csam would count as csam right

    • WtfEvenIsExistence ( WtfEvenIsExistence@lemmy.ca ) 
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      3 years ago

      I mean, we could technically block images and still have discussion of politics.

      Or we could use image hosting like imgur and allow the link as a text, but block the actual image or thumbnail from being cached and blocked from being embedded to the webpage.

      • NightOwl ( NightOwl@lemmy.one ) 
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        3 years ago

        Yeah, I think until a solution is found image hosting should be blocked, and instead rely on external image hosting sites. That seems like the best immediate solution.

  • Meldrik ( meldrik@lemmy.wtf ) 
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    3 years ago

    We need much better moderation tools. List of uploaded content, list of cached content, option to purge cached content.

    • gabe [he/him] ( gabe@literature.cafe ) 
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      3 years ago

      Hopefully a push towards forcing the lemmy devs hands on that end will come from this.

      • TheButtonJustSpins ( TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub ) 
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        3 years ago

        Seems like this kind of insight tool could be created by the community separately.

  • poVoq ( poVoq@slrpnk.net ) 
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    3 years ago

    IANAL, but you are still responsible for it if you host it on a cloud server, the difference is mainly that the authorities will complain first with your cloud host, which will likely take down the entire site, instead of with you directly who can swiftly remove the offending material if asked to do so.

    It is FUD to say the police will SWAT you if someone reports CSAM on your server. But you should have an easy way for the responsible agencies to contact you for take-down requests.

    For people hosting in the EU, this pdf document explains the legal situation a bit and also where and how to report CSAM, should you come across it.

  • dingleberry ( dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de ) 
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    3 years ago

    Federation lovers find out all the work that goes behind curtains in any modern website that hosts user generated content.

    Your browser does not support playing HTML5 video. You can download a copy of the video file instead.

    To all the people who like to talk smack to Jitsi for requiring Google login, lemmy.world for banning piracy communities, or to even to YT for honouring takedown requests: go ahead and try to host just 100 people on your site.

  • gabe [he/him] ( gabe@literature.cafe ) 
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    3 years ago

    :(

    • Blaze ( Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de ) OP
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      3 years ago

      I know, and I just saw this after the meme about people hosting instances taking risks for others…

  • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏 ( lemann@lemmy.one ) 
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    3 years ago

    I was contemplating setting up an instance dedicated to micromobility, active transport and livable cities… but this is a BIG turn off - I don’t think it’s worth spinning up a new instance until the new mod tools land, and the ability to disable caching federated thumbnails

    There are some instances using ML to scan their pictrs folder IIRC, could be good if it could quarantine/delete/purge posts from Lemmy

    • not_amm ( not_amm@lemmy.ml ) 
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      3 years ago

      Hey, that sounds very interesting. Hope you can do it in the future, I’ll definitely join. :)

  • Naomikho ( Naomikho@monyet.cc ) 
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    I had to clean a child porn image once because some bastard registered at an instance I’m moderating and posted an anime child porn image to another instance using the account he created here. And I found a total of 5 copies of that image in the server…

  • eric5949 ( eric5949@lemmy.cloudaf.site ) 
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    Ngl this might be it for my instance, not dealing with all this.

  • Rentlar ( Rentlar@beehaw.org ) 
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    Site is back up after being rehosted off-site!

    • Blaze ( Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de ) OP
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      Indeed, that’s great!

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