• That, and it was slightly more justifiable when these companies were first setting up and operating networks for the services and matchmaking. Economies of scale should have nullified that by now, though.

        The other big one I don’t see people mentioning, but that I remember clearly, was that if you wanted to use Netflix on 360, you had to pay for Live. I think that, above anything else in my friend group, was the move that normalized paying for online services on a console.

    • I don’t think it was a choice. Xbox did it first and that’s why I bought a ps3. Then sony introduced it. Then nintendo. It’s still less expensive than a PC hobby. Consumers don’t have much say in what these companies do or how they operate.

      • It’s still less expensive than a PC hobby

        Only if you plan on either never paying for an online sub for the console or paying for an online sub for less than 5 years on the console, and also take into consideration that a PC can both game and be a computer you can use for other things.

        A gaming PC has a higher upfront cost, but it’s a better long-term value. Let’s say you buy a PS5 for $500, and then pay for 5 years of PS+ for the old price, $60. That’s $800 for a friggin console already, but let’s also consider that most people either have a laptop or a tablet for doing computer-related tasks. Reasonable people would pay probably somewhere in the $400-$600 range, but let’s give the console a chance and say we got a $400 laptop. That’s $1200 now.

        Using that $1200 as a budget, you can get a computer with a 4060ti, a 12th gen i5, a 1TB NVME SSD, and 16GB RAM for around $1100. Note that, say, 5 years down the line from buying this PC, you can just swap in and out parts as you want and be able to sell old parts for some money back, so staying up-to-date to play whatever current games can be cheaper too depending on the part prices.

        • Also anecdotally parts seem to be lasting much longer than they used to. Maybe I’m just playing fewer games, maybe I care about graphics less, or maybe there actually is a technical reason but in the early 00s when I first started building computers I was essentially forced to upgrade about every 2 or 3 years but now I’m still running on my 7 year old desktop with a 1070 – I was going to upgrade the graphics card but the crypto mining boom priced me out and lo and behold I’m still able to play whatever I want with nary a difficulty. Even Baldur’s Gate 3 runs just fine, with a little chugging.

          • The percentage of the industry that can afford to push modern graphics to their limit has only shrunk over time as the development time required to make games that taxing has increased. That’s why most of what you play isn’t particularly high-spec.

          • Ok. Logitech G203 for $20 and a Redragon K552 for $45 - a tiny bit cheaper than a PS5 controller which retails at $70 before tax.

            Windows you can literally get for free from Microsoft directly. You’re basically paying a license to get rid of the “Activate Windows” bit and to be able to change wallpapers, but functionally you can play games and do computer things with an unactivated Windows license. You can also opt to play on Linux instead since Steam offers Proton with their Linux version, and you can also use WINE for games that won’t run on Proton. Linux is also free.

            • Those are not in the same quality tier at all, at least include a wireless rechargeable mouse.

              Consoles don’t have licensing issues with their OS. You can’t run every PC game issue free on steam OS or Linux.

              • You know, you see thus argument every so often online. I’ve had an excellent and subscription free Linux gaming experience over the last three years. If you enjoy console gaming and getting nickel and dimed for increasingly shitty online services then power to you

              • Now you’re just arguing in bad faith lol.

                If you want a mouse with a good sensor for competitive games and a linear switch mechanical keyboard with NKRO, those are generally the two best entry-level options. Rechargeable wireless mice can be a bit pricey, which is why I’m assuming you used a vague descriptor of “quality” and specifically mentioned it just for the sake of being arbitrarily on par with what a PS5 offers. But if you want a good budget option for a wireless gaming mouse, you can with a Logitch G305 for around $50.

                As for the OS stuff, that’s a good point, and it’s true - if you’re talking about 5 or so years ago. Once Steam said “hey, we’re integrating Proton into our Linux version of Steam”, it’s been leaps and bounds in improvements for Linux gaming. By the way, fun fact: the PS4 used FreeBSD for the system’s OS which is based off Unix - and surprise, Linux is also based off Unix. Wouldn’t be surprised if the PS5 OS is also based on FreeBSD.

                • How is that a bad faith argument? The PS5 Controller is not entry level quality. It’s not my problem equivalent PC peripherals are expensive. My Razer Viper Wireless cost $150 and the build quality is just slightly worse than a Dual Sense. It’s built to be lighter weight so that’s understandable. But it’s twice the cost, and that doesn’t include a keyboard. I tried the G305 and didn’t care for the build quality personally. Equivalent wireless keyboards with the quality control of Sony are $80-$100 too. I’d probably cheap out on the keyboard before the mouse, but every keyboard I’ve used under $85 had Quality control issues from switches stop functioning to buggy software (Anne Pro II), and Wireless was terrible on all of them.

                  I’ve heard issues dealing with multiplayer and anti-cheat as recently as this summer, so it’s nice to see it’s better, but until games are officially supported with no third party patches or workarounds, I don’t count it.

                  PS5 is FreeBSD based, so yes it’s Unix-like. But that doesn’t mean anything. MacOS is also Unix-Like and it’s terrible for gaming. It all comes down to support. At the end of the day I don’t want to have to deal with drivers, or configurations to play a game. I want to press a button, and start gaming. For me personally Consoles are going to win that war 95% of the time. But I’m dumb. I spent almost 3 times the cost of a PS5 on a Graphics card last year for some reason.

        • I think this debate can get lost in the numbers when it’s more about the user. For some people that upfront cost is going to make sense, for others it won’t. The math isn’t the hard part. Specifically though, a PC hobby isn’t exactly a cheap hobby.

        • Well, I’m still using my $200 laptop from 7 years ago for my basic computer needs. And that doesn’t seem like it’s going to change soon. Also, someone who buys a gaming PC is likely going to have a cheap laptop to do their basic computer stuff still.

          Also, I get my subscription for $40 on sale, mostly for the games and discounts. So it really just pays for itself in the games I get from it.

      • It’s still less expensive than a PC hobby

        just with the sales and free online/cloudsaves PCs are cheaper in the long run

        And mods are an added value, we can even include fanmade patches that fix what developers don’t into that added value

        Consumers don’t have much say in what these companies do or how they operate.

        Yes, they do. Microsoft tried to incorporate Xbox live onto PC and it was a failure because PC consumers didn’t bought it

        The same goes with paid mods, Valve and Bethesda tried to make people buy mods and it was rejected by the consumer so the have to backtrack.

        Consumers have all the power in their wallet they decide what course the companies take. If a company does something that goes against your interests as consumer is as easy as stop giving them money, if you hurt them economically, they’ll have to go back to the business model that gave them profits (this works only if the average consumer is intelligent enough to protect their own interest/rights)

        • Used or loaned games (provided you have libraries offering them in your area) are still a huge benefit for (most, ie physical media “enabled”) consoles.

          The subscription model is broken by default, regardless of Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo, and is only good and cheap until it isn’t anymore.

          Agreed that consumers have a say, to some extent, however some are too far “into the ecosystem” to either care or be willing to boycott or make a change that would inconvenience them, so they’d rather give in.

          • 100% agree with that, but even then the sharing of physical media seems like it’s being slowly replaced with sharing digital libraries. PS4 allows a hokey way of sharing libraries between two people, and Steam does offer a similar janky way of sharing libraries between multiple people. With GOG, you should be able to download a standalone installer on a USB and then give that to a friend (which now I think about it, is the PC equivalent of lending your friend the disc lol).

            Wondering how long it will be until people go “remember when we used to share discs with each other?”

            • Oh absolutely, I know I’m already part of a minority when I favour physical over digital media.
              We’re likely seeing the last (or, more realistically, second to last?) generation of consoles with physical media as an option and that’s a bummer…
              GOG is great on the PC side of things, but as someone with a Steam Deck as their only PC, it isn’t always the best option (some games have been giving me a headache or end up straight up not working - eg I’ve had to rebuy Gris because the GOG version would show a white screen with any version of Proton I tried, while the Steam version was perfectly fine).

        • just with the sales and free online/cloudsaves PCs are cheaper in the long run

          This may be true, but then i think this is just annother example of how it is more expensive to be poor. Even if PCs are cheaper in the long run, it’s hard to scrounge up the $1000+ upfront to buy a worthwhile PC if you’re living paycheck-to-paycheck. Over 60% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck. If you are living that way, it’s much easier to come up with the $300-500 for a console (in the US, that’s an average tax refund amount), and then the $15 a month for gamepass/PS plus. And don’t tell me you can buy a lowend PC for that price - any PC you buy for $500 is gonna play games worse than the comparable console.

          In cases where our only power is in our wallet, people with bigger wallets will be the only ones with actual power.

        • I think you’re vastly underestimating how cheap most computers are; consumer laptops are around $300-500 median, that’s what most people use. And those laptops don’t game. The enthusiast computer market, while larger than its ever been, is still a ridiculously small percentage of computers sold.

        • I’ve never known any different but it still always felt like paying twice to the Internet to me. My first console with online connection was an Xbox which required Live. Before that they just didn’t have any network connectivity at all.

                • I just checked this page and none of the games that I’m playing currently are on it (Diablo 4, Elden Ring, God of War, Jedi Survivor etc). It’s not like the games I’m playing are obscure or brand new either. Not to mention some of the console exclusives that I’m also playing, like TotK on the Switch and Horizon FW on the PS5, but of course, I understand that the cloud provider can do nothing about that.

                  Don’t get me wrong, I’m quite enthusiastic about cloud gaming as well and looked seriously into it a while ago, because I wanted to upgrade my PC but the upgrade costs were looking pretty high (this was during the peak of the supply chain issues during COVID), also I wanted to break out of the constant and expensive upgrade cycles.

                  But everything I looked at had some or the other limitation, either they didn’t have the games that I was playing, or the service wasn’t available in my country (eg Shadow PC), or it didn’t allow you to bring your own games (Stadia), or it was working out to be too expensive (Azure VM), or had other limitations such as not supporting ultra-wide resolutions at 60+ FPS. I think for me, being able to play my own games is a big fan requirement for it to work, and the pricing of things like Shadow could work out for me, but those sort of services have limited availability, and rolling your own VM on a public cloud can turn very expensive if you’re a heavy gamer, as I’ve experienced first-hand in Azure.

                  Therefore, IMO, cloud gaming, while is the future, just isn’t there yet.

      • Coming from someone whos never had to play for online play, i understand it cause the main driving force for someone to get x console over p console is what their friends have. The amount of ppl who only own a playstation to play COD with their friends is staggering, and moving all their friends to pc is a big task.

  • I realized the only game I play online is FFXIV, which doesn’t require PS+. I almost never play the “free” games they add to the service, and spend a non-zero amount of time browsing said free games in an effort to find something to play rather than something in my backlog. So I just canceled.

    My membership is up in December and I doubt I’ll even notice when it’s gone.

    • What’ll bite me is that almost every single game I “own” are the PSPlus freebies I’ve claimed over the years…

      So, I just added another year to my sub ahead of the price increase.

      I’m weak.

      • Price rises aren’t welcome and the latest one does seem quite high. However I’ve been paying for plus since I got my PS4 and I’m still ok with it. Considering I maybe buy one game every two years for the price of another triple A game a year I’ve built up quite a library. The hours my partner has put into Spiritfarer, Slay the Spire and Hades indicates it’s still providing good value. Every month we at least check out the new games unless it’s a survival horror.

        If I have one complaint it’s since I got off the CoD train as I got older when I do occasionally dip into the free ones via plus I find it very hard to find any online matches. I assume this is because all the hardcore players move pretty quickly to the current iteration leaving the lobbies of the older games empty.

    • Same here, I set to cancel renew every time I top up and since late ps4 time I don’t even add free games that are remotely interesting so I keep a cleaner library. And then when they announced the hike, I did the review and filter by games acquired via plus, same feeling, I almost never play those games, even though they look somewhat interesting and added them but probably never gonna play them since my primary interest and good backlog will last me long enough for next main games to release. So they will have the same treatment like my humble bundle games. And I also decide to not top up any more.

    •  Blackmist   ( @Blackmist@feddit.uk ) 
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      1 year ago

      The point is to get the GamePass like tier.

      For the price of 2 games (or 1 and a half if it goes on sale, and it always did before), you can game all year. I’ve had mine for a year now, and not bought a game for it yet (apart from GoW Ragnarok which came bundled with it, and likely BG3 next week).

      The top tier is kind of a bust. I picked it up because I thought I might play those PS1/2 games but I haven’t used that at all. There’s plenty of PS4 and 5 games still to play, and you can emulate up to PS3 on PC quite easily if you want to play old stuff. There’s scant few PS1 games anyway. It’s far from comprehensive. They should have done so much better here.

        • Yeah my kids don’t have gaming PCs (yet?) but have fun playing through a bunch of the plus stuff when they are not on Minecraft or (shudder) Roblox on their tablets.

        • I don’t have kids but I still find the random assortment of games a value add as I got a lot of games I would have considered anyway, so this was a much cheaper way of playing those games, best is all the random local multiplayer games that I can install for when I have friends over

  • I was going to consider Assassin’s Creed Mirage on PC instead of PS5. Then they announced it wouldn’t be available on Steam. Now I won’t consider it on PC and likely won’t get it at all in any format.

    There are reasons PC gaming is still stupid, and it’s mostly various companies fault.

  • We’re not really headed to a subscription-based future. People like Game Pass, but it has no exclusive content. Nintendo’s the only one trying to make a catalog of games exclusive to their service, but they’re all retro games, and Nintendo can get bent, because we can all pirate and emulate those games better than Nintendo can rent them to us. They could get be getting some revenue from actually selling those old games to customers in the places they want to play those games, but Nintendo isn’t interested in that. If this particular situation gets worse, then I might be worried. There’s just too much diversity in the game industry for this to be a threat. There’s no central cartel or representative group for games the way there is in movies and music to dictate those markets away from what the customer actually wants. In video games, you can switch to Xbox or, more likely, PC when Sony raises prices. PCs have gotten easier, and they’ve always been more open, and I think the gaming market has demonstrated that they value the openness.