- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ca
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- Rikudou_Sage ( @rikudou@lemmings.world ) English91•1 year ago
What dystopia do you guys live in? I’ve worked for some small companies and some corporates and neither did this shit, that really wouldn’t fly here.
It’s illegal in the EU, so probably not there.
- Rikudou_Sage ( @rikudou@lemmings.world ) English30•1 year ago
That might be it. The more I learn the happier I am I live in EU.
It’s legal to spy on your employees in USA?
I’m beginning to think all their tinfoil conspiracy theories aren’t completely baseless…
Why would it be tinfoil? The us culture is very much about hardcore capitalism. They don’t even have unions or proper vacations.
We have unions lmao what?!
Well, our ~800 people company has unions too. But they don’t do sh#t for people. And I mean real sh#t. Except for once a year they have a meeting with free sandwiches they eat and then go home. Another year of unions well done… apparently by them.
But my friends working in big technical/industrial corp say their unions are quite strong and they at least care for employees a bit.
So yeah, there’re unions to this day, but their meaning is not met everywhere.
Are you sure your union isn’t helping? No union is going to be run by miracle workers, but that doesn’t mean they don’t improve conditions. I can’t say for sure, but I suspect this sentiment is part of why union membership fell apart in the 20th century “well my union doesn’t do anything for me anyways.”
Like democracy, unions do require some upkeep via people stepping up. If you don’t like how your union is performing, you could consider becoming a rep (admittedly based on my limited understanding as a non-union employee).
Yes, I am pretty sure. I know most people there personally. It’s kind of sad it even exists, pretty much waste of money in this case.
//edit: it’s virtually impossible to become rep in this case. The company is like family business (not real family, but everyone knows everyone since forever kind of thing) and it is like stalemate for everyone both in union and in management. Unions know they won’t do anything without trying hard (and they won’t because most of them are nearing retirement and they want their peace) and management know unions won’t cause them problems, because they’re what they are.
Not true on either count. We just don’t have enough unions and only some of us have good vacation.
Yeah, they lack personal freedom in USA, it’s just the way it is. Freedom means it’s ok for your boss to spy on you, they’re free to do that and you are free to be spied on. Oh and they get to own a gun which makes them like really really cool and tough.
Depends what mean by owning a gun but some people are so insecure about their personal safety that they probably want one
Land of the Free, my dude!
Idk but it’s a work computer I suppose
In that case I think it’s mostly fine
Indeed it is. There are limits, but not many.
Kinda I guess.
Installing software to log and remotely access a computer is not illegal. Remember that the computer isn’t yours and that you signed a document permitting it.
Not restricting access and using it maliciously might be illegal though. Idk.
Edit: found this: https://www.worktime.com/12-most-asked-questions-on-eu-employee-monitoring-laws
This is why we need unions. Shit like this should be a non-starter.
I work in a highly unionised sector, they still monitor our workload when we WFH and personally I welcome it. I know some people on my team took the piss at home and of it’s a choice between them getting caught out or us all having to go back to the office full time, I choose the former.
What kind of work do you do that you can’t measure work done by the actual amount of work done?
We do a lot of casework so we have things that can very between five minute jobs up to an arguably indefinite timeframe in complex cases, just basing it on cases looked at or closed a day can’t account for that, so instead there’s an algorithm on the system that notes if we go other twenty minutes without doing anything, if flagged the managers will look and see if the case justified it, if not you get pulled up to explain it. Never happened to me as yet, or anyone as far as I know.
Presumably that averages out over time, and any given person’s output over time can be compared with their peers. But that would mean management had to take an active hand rather than have some nanny-bot come tattling based on arbitrary metrics that may or may not have any bearing on the actual work being done. Much easier to treat their employees like children.
It should average out, but some people were taking the mick, hence the change.
If you care about privacy; you tell your employer clearly that you do not tolerate “Boss-ware” or other spyware on your personal devices.
If they give a shit; they will then be forced to issue one that the company owns and manages. If they don’t give a shit; you walk away. Lots of companies will hire you without that crap. Don’t believe people who gaslight you by saying “But every company uses it!” or anything sounding remotely like it.
On a company-issued machine; you tell your employer clearly that you do not tolerate “Boss-ware” that will be used to track or manage your time. Walk away; if they refuse to keep your machine clean of it or attempt to raise any concern that you’re not at your PC every damned moment of your core hours. You have a right to live your life. As long as your immediate bosses and supervisors are happy with the quality and quantity of the work you submit, you’ve done your job. If they are unhappy with the quality or quantity of your work then, they can respectfully schedule a meeting with you to discuss it. The way an actual adult should be treated, and, would be treated in an actual office that observes all standard rules of professionalism. With respect.
TL;DR: Do not accept the implementation of Boss-ware as if the decision was made with any professionalism or respect for you. If they implement it; you leave as fast as possible. Take any friends that you can with you too, if you can.
As an aside; there are USB devices which can act like keyboards and mice; some of which are very clever and intricate. You can use them to your advantage while using work-issued equipment; but keep in mind you’ll need to program it on your personal PC.
You can definitely get creative with some of them and have them simulate the typing and clicking of a lot of different things at random intervals.
Some devices on Amazon are completely separate from the computer and can be powered from the wall.
But in the end, you should really look into switching jobs, if you worry about this.
Also worth noting: if at all possible you’ll want to program a different USB ID onto the device.
What kind of ghoulish engineer works on Time Doctor’s software and is able to sleep at night?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In Australia, a woman said she was fired from her consultant role after her employer’s monitoring software found “very low keystroke activity” on her laptop between October and December.
Time Doctor has seen business pick up over the past few years as remote work has taken off, Borja said, and the return-to-office movement hasn’t eliminated the demand for employee-tracking software.
A March Resume Builder survey of 1,000 US business leaders with a primarily remote or hybrid workforce found that 96% of them use some form of employee-monitoring software, sometimes called bossware, to monitor worker productivity.
At Tesla’s New York plant, workers told Bloomberg that the company tracks how active they are on their computers — and that they’ve avoided taking bathroom breaks as a result.
Refusing to turn on your webcam during a meeting, for instance, could give your employer the right to fire you if you live in the US, legal experts previously told Insider.
“Everybody in the industry talks about it — you’ve got the all-seeing eye of Big Brother watching everything the employees are doing, and it’s a little creepy,” a Time Doctor staffer told Insider in 2021.
The original article contains 678 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good bot
Pretty sure if my work place tries to do this people will just quit… Employers are already facing retention issue.
I quit a job after three days because they wanted me to install that shit on my machine. It was not mentioned in the interview and I specifically asked how they measured hours worked. They just said “we have a timesheet software where you input your times”. It was also an emergency hire for a job someone quit two weeks before deadline. /s Great place to work!! /s
Thats why so many employers say they can’t hire the right person. You did the right thing. I will also quit in that situation. If an employer don’t trust me, what is the point working there?
If you’re on their device, assume it’s a giant surveillance device. If you’re forced to do company work on your device, stick it in a VM.
I never turn my work laptop on at home. I don’t even have any bookmarks saved in the browser. I have a .txt file synced using Syncthing that I treat as a perpetual notepad where I keep my links. I don’t think I’ve even turned my work laptop on at home or charged it at home this year.
Of course, these are things I can get away with since I’m a professor. But still, I have received emails asking if I need training on how to use my computer because I have barely used it. They really, really wanted me to use Outlook instead of the webapp for some reason. I never did. But, they were so insistent. Recently we lost the ability to change wallpaper, default browsers and quick launch icons.
Work computers: almost a neat perk.
Maybe dual boot into Linux
I already got in big trouble for that about 6 or 7 years ago. I was teaching a class and one of the IT folks happened by and looked in the window. 10 minutes later my phone was ringing and emails were flying in. No dual booting, Linux in a VM if I want and they need to install it.
I use 3 things on that computer: Notepad++ (I had to ask them to install it because we’re not allowed to d ha ourselves), Firefox, and MuPDF (also needed to ask permission for that one). Now, I can’t complain too much because they gifted the teachers the previous laptops, so I’m assuming they’ll do the same again and it will be mine.
So what exactly is going on over there?
Can you use your own devices?
Of course you can haha. They just keep most of the devices locked down because employees aren’t so skilled with computers and tend to mess things up.
Like install windows?
How can I check if my laptop has such software installed?
If it’s a work laptop, treat it like it has tracking software on it. Don’t use your work computer for personal stuff that you don’t want your employer to see. Period.
Well, thx. But this was not my question.
Disclaimer, I have not studied the software in question and there are many ways to implement it, so this isn’t a way to say a computer is clean, just a way to detect if it’s infected.
Typically, keylogging programs like these are installed as device driver filters. Open devmgmt.msc, locate your keyboard and right click -> properties -> details tab -> property drop down -> upper filters and lower filters.
These should be empty normally. If there are entries present then you have some program that is hooking into your keyboard driver and accessing your keystrokes.
Similarly, there should be a filter on your mouse if it is being listened to.
If you are especially paranoid, you can jot down the GUID of the keyboard and mouse driver (it looks like a long hex number with dashes surrounded by {}s), then shut down the computer and boot to a rescue disk, open up regedit, mount the registry hive for SYSTEM it’s located in \windows\system32\config\system, (let’s say you mount it to SYSTEM.remote), then navigate to SYSTEM.remote\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\
Then you scroll through this key’s values and look for UpperFilters and LowerFilters.
The reason why you do it this way is to avoid a rootkit situation, where a driver also hooks into requests to the OS for certain information, and uses that to hide its presence.
Yes, but my point is that you’re asking a flawed question. It’s possible for us to give you a bunch of different services or processes to look for, but it’s trivial for these companies to just make a new service or process with a different name that’s harder to find. You’re trying to play a cat and mouse game that you’re not going to win.
I work in IT. Most of our clients’ computers are managed by an MDM, which means that we can push ANY package or software to the computer at ANY time, without notifying the user. Most of our clients don’t bother with tracking software, but some do. And make no mistake, tracking software is basically legal spyware.
So, my point is this: it doesn’t matter whether or not you have evidence of tracking software on your computer. Just assume that it’s there, and don’t use your computer for anything you don’t want your employer to see. That is the safest route.
You’d have to disable IME for Intel or the equivalent for AMD and then reinstall the OS.
However you might simply want to run some rootkit detecting tools, check what programs and drivers you have installed and look up each one, and browser extensions.
