- Luke_Fartnocker ( @Luke_Fartnocker@lemm.ee ) 35•1 year ago
I disagreed with the Microsoft charges back then, and I disagree with the case against Google now. I hate both of them and I think they use monopolistic tactics, but making their own search engine or browser the default in their OS isn’t monopolistic, especially since you can easily change it.
The tactics that should be fought against are things like when Google used its size and money to offer free unlimited cloud photo storage. That put several cloud services out of business because they couldn’t compete with “free unlimited” storage. Then, when all the competition was gone, Google started charging for their service which was no longer unlimited.
When someone tries to compete with Google, Google either uses their power to put them out of business or buys them. That is totally monopolistic and what the government should be defending against.
- ninjan ( @ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com ) 21•1 year ago
You’re completely missing the point to a level that feels dishonest. You’ve already gotten a great reply around why you’re wrong on Microsoft so I’ll keep to Google.
Google started out providing the superior service and didn’t do anything overtly shady. Then the shady shit started, cloud storage was one thing as mentioned, others include doing the Microsoft thing of not following web standards properly, in Googles case with the argument that their way is faster/better etc effectively forcing everyone to code towards their browser (chromium, not just chrome) since it has insane market domination.
Another, and maybe the most egregious because they haven’t been slapped for the other stuff, is the privacy bullshit they’re doing now around cookies which basically kills off the last remnants of competition around ads online.
Google as the default search is just the tip of the shitberg of monopolistic bullshit imo.
- Luke_Fartnocker ( @Luke_Fartnocker@lemm.ee ) 2•1 year ago
Google as the default search is just the tip of the shitberg of monopolistic bullshit imo.
I agree. That’s why I don’t understand why they are going after the default search when it’s the weakest argument of all of them. I just pointed out one instance where Google is blatantly monopolistic, but there are many more, and there are also many instances where they are breaking other laws. It just seems like the government is sticking to the default search issue because it’s soft and they truly don’t care. If they win, they can force Google to make it easier to set your search engine. Then they claim a victory, while Google just keeps on invading our privacy and amassing our data for their own profit.
- ninjan ( @ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com ) 2•1 year ago
The real case meat isn’t default search though, it’s the fact that they have 95%+ of the US online search market. That is stifling innovation and is part of the reason for their ad dominance as well. And they’re abusing it as well by making changes which mean they funnel you into ad results, display the content you’re after without entering the page in question thus “stealing” traffic and eyeballs and the whole amp bullshit.
Just like AT&T previously completely dominating telecom was a dampener on innovation which became super obvious once the monopoly was ended I think it will be the opening of Internet and search innovation flood gates if this monopoly is broken.
- Luke_Fartnocker ( @Luke_Fartnocker@lemm.ee ) 1•1 year ago
if this monopoly is broken.
That’s the important part. My point is that the government is like a lion going after toes rather than the jugular. They could easily go for something more significant, but they’ve chosen not to. I think it’s because they care more about the show than the result. Not even Google could take on the federal government if it really wanted to break up the monopoly. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ve seen these shinanigans too many times
- abhibeckert ( @abhibeckert@beehaw.org ) 1•1 year ago
t just seems like the government is sticking to the default search issue because it’s soft and they truly don’t care.
Or maybe they’re actively investigating the other issues too but aren’t ready to bring those to court yet… so they’re not saying anything which could affect proceedings.
- Luke_Fartnocker ( @Luke_Fartnocker@lemm.ee ) 1•1 year ago
I hope that’s true, but I wouldn’t put money on it.
- narc0tic_bird ( @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee ) 19•1 year ago
While I agree that it’s fine they make their own browser the default on their operating systems, I wouldn’t say it’s easy to change the default browser in Windows 11.
Edge shows a popup when visiting official download sites of other browsers. I remember seeing “Edge is like Chrome but with the added trust of Microsoft” when downloading Chrome using Edge. Then you have to go into Windows settings, default apps, scroll until you see your browser of choice and click “Set as default” or something. Then it might beg you to keep Edge the default.
And even after supposedly setting a default browser, using search from the start menu still uses Bing and opens results in Edge. Outlook started to have its own (somewhat hard to find) setting that has “Edge” or “default browser” as options. Guess what the option selected by default is?
Windows can also show you a “finish setting up Windows” assistant every now and then when you login, which sets Edge and Bing as the defaults unless you skip it (which isn’t the big, bright, blue button, but a plain link somewhere).
All this together makes it very hard to change your default browser and keep it that way, especially for your average consumer.
- Luke_Fartnocker ( @Luke_Fartnocker@lemm.ee ) 2•1 year ago
I wouldn’t know anything about Windows 11. The last Windows I used personally was XP. We use Windows 7 at work and it’s annoying because we have 3 different browsers and we have to use each of them depending upon which company intranet site were viewing because the sites don’t all work with all browsers. I don’t know why, but I assume that has something to do with Microsoft.
- Fizz ( @Fizz@lemmy.nz ) 5•1 year ago
What else do they expect Apple to set as the default search engine? I can’t imagine Apple users being ok with Bing results.
- SecretPancake ( @SecretPancake@feddit.de ) 4•1 year ago
Don’t care about the default, I just wish they would allow custom search engines like Kagi (no that weird redirect trick is not a satisfying solution)
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Testifying in the biggest antitrust trial in a quarter century, Eddy Cue, Apple’s senior vice president of services, said Tuesday that there wasn’t “anybody as good’’ as Google at helping phone and computer users search the internet.
Google counters that it dominates the market because its search engine is better than the competition, a position Cue supported in his testimony.
The antitrust case, the biggest since the Justice Department went after Microsoft and its dominance of internet browsers 25 years ago, was filed in 2020 during the Trump administration.
Mikhail Parakhin, Microsoft’s head of advertising and web services, testified Tuesday that Google’s dominance feeds on itself.
Parakhin also recounted his experience battling Google in his previous job as chief technology officer at the Russian search engine Yandex.
Earlier in the proceedings, the government called a behavioral economist, who testified that Google’s default status discourages users from switching search engines, partly because they are reluctant to change ingrained habits.
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