Assume mainstream adoption as used by around 7% of all github projects
Personally, I’d like to see Nim get that growth.
Esperanto.
Sorry to say, but once I realised how euro-centric, and to my ear/eye, latin-centric esparanto is I completely lost interest.
I don’t know if anyone has tried, but something which similarly draws influences from the languages that the vast majority of the world speak would be wonderful.
You made me think of that xkcd about standards.
Anyway, the eurocentrism argument, while perhaps true due to the Latin root, seems to be a little bit of a savior complex don’t you think? China itself pushed for Esperanto to be used as a business language internally late last century as I recall.
savior complex
I don’t see that at all.
It’s about making a language that the maximum amount of cultures can see themselves in, can have at least some familiarity with, and feel like they’ve been acknowledged in the making of a global language … all of which is intended to get maximum buy in around the world to establish a truely international language rather than a Lingua Franca derived from hegemony.
Maybe China was interested in Esperanto for a bit, but I’m betting like most stories like that it’s heavily exaggerated or outright bogus.
Someone already said that either the created language takes from too few source languages and alienates speakers of languages with no common characteristics or takes from every language family and becomes a horrible mess that’s hard to speak for everyone.
So if a world language is a bad idea no matter what languages you use as a source, why not have Esperanto or something similar for Europe/English speaking world and then a different language for Asia, and another one for Africa. You’ve reduced the number of translators needed and left most people with a language close to their mother tongue. You could also break the suggested regions in to smaller sections eg give Germanic Europe a common Germanic language. West/south Europe get Esperanto, east Europe sets a common slavic language. You still get languages that don’t neatly fit like Hungarian but its better for most language learners than the last example.
Personally I’d not propose universal languages as a utopian idea and instead promote indigenous languages such as Catalonian, Breton, Irish and promote learning many languages in a post work society.
Yeah we can invent yet another language, and go through the motions of including everyone. But by god make sure you don’t forget anyone. Let’s throw in Chamicuro, Warlpiri, Liki, Tanema, Ongota, and Dumi, just to make sure. Don’t want to upset anyone….
Or we could stop inventing new ways to accuse things of not being inclusive enough. It’s getting bonkers… Not saying Esperanto is the best language, and it has its flaws as others have so vehemently stated, but if inclusivity is the primary motive when designing a language, then I can almost certainly guarantee that new language will be much worse.
I mean English is basically the world language. It’s used by pilots, scientists, global finance, and diplomatic efforts. I’m gonna assume that almost no one would classify English as inclusive in its vocabulary. Unless you’re German, Dutch, or French of course. Esperanto is at least more accessible and easy to learn and carries Latin roots… shared with lots of languages. And it was invented by a member of a repressed minority in the old Russian Empire. What’s not to love?
My problem is not with inclusivity but with promoting uptake. If you are familiar with the grammar or phonetic sounds or some of the vocab, you are more likely to find that language easier to learn.
Both English and Esperanto share the same problems of universal languages that I mentioned. English does have the advantage of number of speakers but it is a mess of a language for people to have to learn.
Again to reiterate my counter to universal languages, why not learn and potentially help revive your local indigenous languages. In a world where universal translation exits on our phones everybody being able to speak the same language matters less.
Who cares if it’s European sounding, it’s still an interesting language that is relatively easy to learn, even for people from non-romance backgrounds.
Toki Pona
A language that’s hard to say much in even if you know 100% of the vocabulary.
Lojban
What disrupted the fun for me:
- the rules for articles before languages, countries and their people
- everything sounds the same / easy to be misunderstood
- not nearly as internationally approachable as it could be, though obviously that’s almost impossible
Jes
I think OP means programming language. Not the languages used by human to communicate each other.
If we’re saying 7% is the bar for mainstream, then Rust is my vote.
C# is not even mainstream by that standard.
I’d also like to see Julia used more.
I personally find multiple dispatch far more challenging to use than OOP. I’d reach for Torch over Flux any day.
Although, I really like that the majority of the Flux stack is Julia rather than a collection of Cpp.
What do you find challenging about multiple dispatch? I don’t use Julia for my job, so I can’t say I’ve had enough experience to have a strong opinion. MD seems like a valuable tool though.
Simply, the lsp is far less useful. An object might have a dozen methods that act like verbs or some attributes that act as adjectives.
In Julia there is a huge number of functions, that work differently for different types and different combinations of types. So finding the documentation involves finding the right name for a function that does different things for different types, then scrolling down the docs for the the behaviour that corresponds to the specific combination of inputs.
I moved from R/Py to Julia for a while before moving back to Py (and a little bit of Rust).
I love how fast Julia is and the 1-index is fine for me, but I still prefer py for the oop.
So there’s no LSP function to just show all of the multi-methods that accept a specific type? That’s a pretty serious tooling limitation.
Maybe Julia sounds better in theory than in practice, if the tooling still isn’t ready for production use.
Well it’s there, in one loooong print out. It’s not as bad as I’m making it out to be, however, I went back to python unfortunately.
The crucial issue with Julia, no error messages.
So I use Julia for things that need to be fast (e.g. moving hdf5 to SQL and ffts) but I use python for everything else (except ggplot).
Where kind I find statistics for this?
The guy behind the youtube channel Context Free (about programming languages) made this site that tracks language popularity based on github/stack overflow: https://tjpalmer.github.io/languish
Zig hasn’t been mentioned yet, so I’m just going to drop that here.
I personally have enjoyed the meta-programming, the ease of integrating with C libraries, and like that it’s pretty straight-forward to compile.
Came here for Zig too. I never programmed anything in it other than hello world stuff. I think the world is waiting for the 1.0 release with complete tooling and package manager and a solid foundation that won’t change too soon. I watched talks from Andrew and what this guy and his team is doing is amazing. It’s a small team.
Zig is what I thought Rust would be like when I first heard of Rust. I’d love to try Zig for some hobby things but can’t get it running on OpenBSD (yet!).
Haskell. I think that more people being familliar with Haskell concepts would be good for programing culture and it would increase the odds of me being able to write Haskell professionally, which is something I enjoy a lot when writing hobby code at least. Having more access to tooling and a bigger eco system would be nice as well.
I’m not a 100% sure about my answer though. For one, I might grow to resent Haskell if I had to use it at work, and there’s also a risk that it would be harder to do cool innovative stuff with the language when more big companies depend on it.
formal English
You monster
Currently out of stock, but what about
use English; use strict;
Elixir… please I want an Elixir job
The most beautiful language. Why doesn’t every language have pipes?
Why doesn’t every language have pipes?
Mario’s favorite character
I find Universal Function Call Syntax a much nicer solution than pipes, although I don’t think it’s quite as broad.
For example, taking the example from elixir’s home page:
"Elixir" |> String.graphemes() |> Enum.frequencies()would be
"Elixir".graphemes.frequencesin something like D
I personally find that syntax a bit confusing because it looks like it’s traversing members of structs/records/objects. It also looks like the composition operator in Haskell but is read in opposite order.
I’m sure it’s perfectly fine when actually working in D but it’s not as obvious as pipes imo.
You can add parenthesis if you prefer
Some LISP going mainstream woulb be great!
(defun clever-comment (comment) (if (equal (count-parentheses comment) (* 2 (count-letters ’LISP))) ’Clever ’Not-Clever))
Vertigo inducing syntax .
Not many people know LISP actually stands for “Lots of Irritating and Stupid Parentheses”
It’s really not bad, just unfamiliar.
Pony! Its actor based, with a really interesting type system
It’s a pity there is not 1 code example on the Front Page. I spent a few minutes trying to find a page with some code and all I found was Why, Why Not, what is different etc and not any code examples so I am out. Look at Zig within seconds I can see if I like the syntax, does it make sense to me. I would love to know what Pony lang looks like. I might like it but it seems like
I would like to see Ada grow. Its clean syntax, rich expressive capabilities, and early error detection by the compiler due to strict typing create a very pleasant experience during development. This year, the language got a new standard. Recently, a package manager and a community index were created. There’s an extension/LSP for vscode, etc. Along with great educational materials on learn.adacore.com, it’s easy to pick up and start using this language.
PS I created a community on p.d two days ago: https://programming.dev/c/ada
Futhark: a functional language that can be compiled to run in parallel on cpu or gpu. (No need to write cuda directly) https://futhark-lang.org
{-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-} import qualified Data.Text as T (Text) correctAnswer :: T.Text correctAnswer = "Haskell"I would LOVE for Nim to get more web stuff
Go. I love writing go, its so simple and predictable and the accessability of multithreading and being allowed to create as many “threads” as I want make me feel smart as fuck.
Would you say Go is popular enough to be called mainstream?
Go is definitely mainstream imo, and it’s backed by google.
Rust
Some fun stack-based concatenative language (like Forth or Min) :3 I like playing with odd/new-to-me things that change how I have to approach things in some way. … Also I wanna find a Forth community I can stand 😅 That or maybe a similar low-level language, I suppose. I was thinking of using it for a project but… eegh. Bleh. Et cetera. Still might, but purely on my own terms I guess.
Also, more Haskell please >:3 Or something else like it. We must spread the glory of FP nerdery @.@ …And maybe get some more useful (and maintained) packages to work with instead of just kinda having to wonder what even builds any more v.v
If you like Haskell but desire better tooling, you might consider checking out Lean4.
There are some concatenative-related discord links in the sidebar of https://programming.dev/c/concatenative you may or may not be able to stand.
Anyway answering the main post: Factor (stack/concatenative), Nim, Roc, Zsh
Interesting commagazine! … I don’t seem to be able to get to it through kbin :( Am already digging around in there, though, so thanks for the tip :3
Sorry I don’t know how to kbin yet. Maybe the link provided by the bot that replied to me is better?
Are there any concatenative/stack/Factor kbin magazines you know of?
I don’t even see the bot from here. Bleeeeeh maybe I just need to give up and jump ship to a Lemmy instance 😅 Is not your fault, of course.
I don’t think I’d encountered any such commagazines (why’d they have to be named both?!) and that’s why I was excited to learn about the one you mentioned. I’ve already started peeking around in there and finding some interesting tidbits :3
