I apologize if this has been asked a ton, still migrating to lemmy. Still stuck on crappy reddit out of habbit, but i’ve found the lemmy universe to be much more helpful.
Basically I’ve had a Dell Xps 13 9310 laptop for 4-5 years maybe? and I’ve put the thing through hell and back. Always (I believe) fixing it though and bringing it back to life. However, it seemed as if any linux distro i ever installed always had some sort of problems. I don’t know Linux well enough yet to be able to trouble shoot because it seems there’s many different routes to do it in Linux.
I’ve gone through so many distros and DEs and have tried everything on this thing. Well I think I finally bricked it after tinkering around with it. So I’m trying to plan a new budget setup.
I’ve always been a laptop guy because I love being able to lay on the couch by the TV and also have my laptop right there in front of me. I suppose im open to a small form or mini form desktop or box and just get a small display and a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo.
I just don’t know how to find what’s better compatible with linux. I see so much talk about “X” computers being great for Linux and to avoid “Y” computers because they dont work well with Linux (which I found out the newer Dells kinda suck. becoming more locked down and proprietary like Apple). I know there’s companys like Tuxedo or Pine or Pop Os that sell their specific Linux friendly devices, but those are all too expensive for me.
I’m looking for a machine that can easily handle Linux but also handle I guess a system or network, basically something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road. Also something durable and fairly user friendly.
The million dollar question(s)… how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even “compatible” with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors? I ran into a firmware/driver issue with my Dell and linux… they provided only a handful of drivers/firmware for ONLY Ubuntu 20.04. super limited and meant as a windows machine. As far as ram and storage, those are probably not pertinent and more of personal preference. But I guess it boils down to things like the cpu, gpu, ram, idk, whatever is important for Linux? any tips or advice is greatly appreciated. I want to finally take this serious and ensure I have the right equipment for what I want to do instead of falling for the newest, shiny things lol. Thanks
For near-guaranteed compatibility, there are dedicated manufacturers like System76 and Tuxedo. Framework also claims Linux compatibility but for set tested distros (Ubuntu and Fedora).
Generally, anything with Intel/AMD graphics and Intel Wifi is pretty much guaranteed to work in my experience. For laptops, high-DPI displays can be problematic but the fixes are on Wayland which is getting higher priority now.
ahh i think my dell xps 13 has a higher DPI and I always run Xorg or X11 or whatever it’s called
I just collect junk from my friends and install Linux on them, lol, you get what you get and make it work
It’s just that my model is a newer generation Dell and I’ve heard from multiple people that Dell is getting more and more locked down and proprietary like Apple, so im thinking that’s why I haven’t had the best linux experience on this darn thing.
Have tried openSuse together with the community repo “packman”? OpenSuse was best distro with compatible driver yet.
Check out framework laptops
Thanks, will check out
AMD or Intel Graphics. Intel networking, Atheros, or a chipset that is known to be friendly with Linux.
CPU support is fairly diverse.
Sound is fairly well supported but with some devices can be a surprise, as are touchpads. Touchscreen and webcams are generally a bit more dubious.
With desktops, I very rarely have issues but it’s also easier to pick my own hardware. For laptops, I usually don’t buy something that’s new to market unless the component models are known to work. If it’s been around for a bit I can usually Google comments by somebody else who’s got one and tried to run Linux on it.
As a genera rule avoid Nvidia. Also google the fingerprint sensor and wifi model before buying. General advice like “Thinkpads are fully linux compatible” is rubbish. Take your time to Google all idiosyncrasies of your desired model.
Im just most concerned about it being linux user friendly and fairly durable, as I tend to mess things up and wipe my drive sorts often lol hey, i’m learning! don’t game so don’t need Nvidia, check. don’t need a fingerprint sensor, check. so what is it that actually makes linux more compatible with some computers but not others? does it boil down to the cpu???
Focus on what you’re going to use the laptop for and choose your hardware accordinly. Linux will work great as long as your hardware is not unsupported. So don’t worry about that at all.
Do you mean like System76?
What the heck is System76??? I see it everywhere but only affiliated with Pop OS
In general its not about the CPU or GPU. Even Nvidia works kinda okay on some Devices, at least according to Nick from TheLinuxExperiment. Some apps like Davinciresolve require it, and cuda is also only supported on Nvidia. Mobile AMD graphics are kinda underpowered for some tasks.
Its more about weird hardware that isnt supported, Fingerprint readers, even keyboards going into some weird hibernation and you need to hard reset the PC as you cant control it anymore (Acer swift). Some devices like Microsoft Surfaces need a custom kernel.
Lots ot refurbished business laptops like the Lenovo T series, HP or Dell business series works well, as they also dont have weird components.
Check linux-hardware.org and if you have a running laptop, install their HWprobe and run it, to share that your laptop is working. With comments you can add what is really working etc.
Personally I would also care about Coreboot. Checkout Novacuston (EU) or System76 or Starlabs, they have Coreboot laptops. I mean, installing Linux on some laptop with a proprietary garbage Bios that doesnt get updates (!!!) anymore is pretty hypocritical. Coreboot is awesome but rare, its awesome that there are some companies and people making it run on new hardware, so I would check those out.
And… maybe dont get an M1 Macbook ;D
good advice, thank you! oh ok, so since im on a budget and i’ll likely be buying refurbed or used, it’ll likely be an older machine. would older computers but from the good companies mentioned still be capable of running newer versions/kernels of distros?
Welcome to Linux! Every hardware runs everything. Its not Mac or Android. Old Devices work always, as the drivers already exist. Only reeeally old stuff gets thrown out of the kernel.
Thinkpad T430’s have a pretty high price on Ebay currently, I have one and its a great laptop, nice keyboard, Coreboot/Heads/Libreboot/1vyrain custom BIOS all run. But it is a really old Laptop.
Bought a Clevo MZ41 on Ebay, will attempt to flash coreboot. Was not pricey too.
Try Thinkpads, Dell, Hp. Normally older Acer or Asus too. If you find a laptop with
- good 1080p display
- good keyboard in your language/ you dont care about stickers
- good battery life
- everything normal broken, not completely old
Just search for “Linux MODEL” and you will probably find some reports.
For new hardware you want a recent Distro, Fedora (try Kinoite! ublue.it), OpenSuse Tumbleweed (try Kalpa) or EndeavorOS for easy Arch, are all good. Maybe avoid ubuntu, or use something like PopOS or TuxedoOS, which are better versions of Ubuntu, with newer packages and less annoying crap like Snap.
I am not sure if you already use Linux, but some general tips:
- try to use Flatpaks from Flathub as much as possible. They are already often officially supported and have less bugs. Also the apps are isolated from your system, so they are more up to date, dont break your system, keep system upgrades small, and they have privacy advantages
- use a Distro that supports Wayland very well. X11 is stupidly old and will be completely unsupported in a few years. Its already dead since a few years, as nothing changes.
- try an “immutable”, image based Distribution like Fedora Atomic (Kinoite (KDE), Silverblue (Gnome)) or Opensuse Kalpa (KDE) or Aeon (Gnome). They are simply modern, stable, resettable and your changes are transparent.
- if you want to do any crazy stuff like code, install apps with many dependencies, do it in a Distrobox. You can install apps normally, but they are still not bloating your system. If you dont need them, delete the Distrobox and your system is clean again. This goes especially for strange University etc. software that needs to be installed with some script or something.
- use a root Distrobox if you need things like USB
- use fish as your normal shell, simply by editing the Terminals “open command”. That way your shell in the Distroboxes has a different configuration, fish looks nice and colorful and has stuff like autocompletion.
- do backups of your system and your data. Just do that always, on an extra drive. It saves so much horror of losing everything, if a drive breaks or your laptop gets stolen or whatever. If you want Cloud backups, use Cryptomator and any cloud you want.
- use Syncthing, maybe disable global discovery for LAN only, for syncing your data between two or more specific devices.
- use soundbound, SoundCloud Downloader (Firefox Addon) and youtube downloaders as long as they work. Download all of your music to not be dependend on those companies
- try waydroid for Android apps on Linux. Use F-Droid basic as the application store, and check for “list of f-droid repositories” and add some.
Wow, I truly appreciate this response. So i’ve been using Linux for a decade and know a “fair” amount, never made it a goal to learn the ins and outs, though I am now. So I hear business laptops make great linux machines. My main question is, most of the computers within my budget that are “known” to be decent linux machines are very old. Are they capable of still keeping up with all the newest and latest versions of distros? or are you stuck on older models just because the nature of the device being older?
No XD again, every hardware runs every distro.
Rule of thumb, avoid intel generations younger than 7-8 and avoid i3, on AMD I am not sure but probably the same. Avoid weird cheap brands you never heard, chances are huge that nobody cared to support every hardware piece of them.
Best are noname OEMs like Tongfang and Clevo, if you get those, chances are very good and they are cheaper.
Also a little reminder from debloating a Windows “Gaming laptop” today. Windows doesnt support shit, its the manufacturers making the hardware work by bloating the system with horrible software.
wait a sec, kinda contradicting here. you said to avoid weird cheap brands but then you told me to buy weird cheap brands… lol sorry im confused
No, these OEMs are noname but not cheap. They are noname because they produce PCs sold under different Brand names. Many Linux Laptops use Tongfang or Clevo hardware, put some branding on there and custom parts and thats it.
Aha I see! thanks for the info. I think i’m going thinkpad though, just gotta decide which model. they are incredibly cheap! especially for what you get
I always had chance installing Linux on Dell Latitude laptops. MX Linux works flawlessly, everything.
Ok I have always heard Latitudes and thinkpads up to a certain model or generation are good for Linux
something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road.
You need to check out Fedora Podcast EP: Getting Fedora with your Lenovo. For the first time they take laptop compatibility with Fedora Linux ecosystem seriously and announce it with such a deep detail on how they do that.
how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even “compatible” with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors?
I think Thinkpad line seems to be your right choice. Not for all linux distros, but at least Thinkpad has used by many developers in the world, so probably more compatible than other laptop brand IMO.
thanks alot. are there certain thinkpad models to look at or will any thinkpad be ok? i think i’ve heard that after a certain model, lenovo started making changes or something and it affected the linux experience. idk i could be way wrong
You can check the hardware compatibility list in here. The level support begin with Ships Fedora, Supports Fedora, and Fedora Friendly.
Buy it, install Linux, see if it works.
If it doesn’t, return it and buy something else.
Computers usually have 30-days no questions asked return policies.
If you’re listening to people that say to buy specific things, then odds are you going to be paying more for less.
Don’t let their theory replace your experience.
Well that’s the thing, I can’t afford to buy new where you can just return it and all that; I’ll most likely be buying a refurb or used or older but new piece of equipment or possibly piecing together my own, depending on what i can learn about what I need for a smooth and easily fixable linux system
I’ve been using Clevo laptops for years. Large user base, lots of great Linux support. I just run Ubuntu, haven’t had many issues (and no critical issues).
They usually get rebranded, and I’ve gotten them through IBuyPower, Origin, and… can’t remember the other one. My most recent one was just straight up marketed as a Clevo, got it on Amazon.
You might have one or two odd issues (like having to install custom code to configure the RGB key backlights), but there are plenty of users to ask for assistance on various forums and repos.
As a general recommendation: whatever you get, try your best to have an AMD core.
Not a tech guru in any way but any AMD machine is just more friendly for linux
Intel integrated graphics and CPU are better imho. I have no GUI way of controlling energy saver on AMD while thats there in intel. Like changing the governor and all. Thats not even remotely there on AMD, there are apps but not on Fedora at least yet.
This is a lie told often enough it’s become true.
More recommendations mean more people using the hardware. More people using the hardware means more testing. More testing means more people learning and documenting how to fix problems. So in that sense, statements like that actually do become true over time regardless of their truth values at the beginning.
As anecdotal as this may be, out of several machines I owned and installed and reinstalled over the years, AMD centric were always easier to install, while installing Intel based machines from friends and family always got me grinding my teeth out of frustation.
I vouch for AMD based on my history with working it - and I repeat: I am not a tech guru - even without putting linux support on the table. I’ve ran AMD machines for over a decade, with no hardware problems, while I had Intel based hardware fail me in three or four years.
Really??? I have always heard the opposite, that Intel is best for Linux? who knows
My personal experience comes from running several machines over the years and AMD always returned the best results, from laptops to desktops.
My current desktop is reachin 11 years of service and still reliable.
Don’t think I have much experience with AMD, almost always Intel. Are there certain generations that are like cutoff for being too old to be stable, quick, and performant?
My first laptop was a MSI AMD+Nvidia, circa 2005. It was a low spec machine yet it outperformed and outlived laptops coworkers had with higher specs. Back then I used Ubuntu and drivers were available out of the box. It managed cpu better and the machine ran smoother than under windows, which would stress the cpu more. Ran it for almost 9 years and I retired it because it made no sense spending the €100+ to have the graphics card repaired.
From that point forward, all my AMD machines were always responsive and reliable.
My current desktop is already 10 years (Sempron based) old and it outperforms my laptop, which is 5 years younger (AMD as well).
I am a bit of a Linux missionary and every single machine I ever managed to bring to the dark side always ran smoother under Linux, regardless the core, but Intel often posed some extra hurdle to install. One particular case I still remember today was a laptop that required to manually install network card drivers, both wired and wireless. The required driver was available in the installer but it always failed to load.
I’ll risk anything from the last 10 years will be good. I’d personally recommend a minimum of 8GB of ram, DDR3. The technology is really cheap and mature at this point.
Maybe Slimbook? I haven’t bought one yet but it’s definitely on my close watch.
Avoid Kaby Lake processors. I specifically have i7-7600u in my laptop and must use a kernel parameter otherwise it kernel panics freezes minutes after booting. Sometimes it still freezes when waking up from sleep or hibernate. Something to do with power management or such.
Yup my dell xps 13 had kaby lake processors, not all cores though.
You basically already know the drill; buy it from a Linux-first vendor that offers devices that you can afford. A list of vendors can be found here. Personally, I’m quite fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs. Fortunately, both have ‘cheaper’ offerings with their NJ50 Series and StarLite respectively.
Thanks! but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it’s hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns. also, i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used… i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it’s hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns.
You hit the nail on the head with that remark. Because, quite frankly, it’s hard for all of us; I would love to read reviews done by Notebookcheck (or similarly high-profile reviewers), unfortunately that’s simply not the case. In this case, you would have to scrape whatever knowledge you can find about these specific devices (and their vendors) before judging for yourself if it’s worth taking the risk.
The reason, why I’m personally fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs, is because they’re known to contribute back significantly to the open-source community; same applies to System76, Purism and Tuxedo. I didn’t name any these in my previous post, because none of them seemed to be sufficiently affordable.
i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used… i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
If it’s about the processor being slow, then I’m not surprised. It’s from Intel’s N-series, which is somewhat of a spiritual successor to Intel’s Celeron and Pentium lines. Both of which are known to be not powerful. And for that price you shouldn’t expect a lot more, but I agree that an i3 (or something else with similar processing power) should have been possible at that price-range.
Yup, N series
