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It’s a good video, filled with nuance, and good discussion. Definitely worth watching
Agreed - it’s 25 minutes without filler or repetition. Good stuff.
Canonical link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo22D-dUeCA
Tldr via notegpt io
- 🔥 Hot take of the month: Should you use a VPN before connecting to Tor? Probably yes!
- 🔍 Counter-argument to Mental Outlaw’s video on “Stop Using Tor With VPNs”
- 🌐 Tor Project acknowledges the benefits of using a VPN with Tor
- 🤝 Privacy Guides is not affiliated with any VPN providers
- 🔒 Using a VPN before Tor enhances privacy and security
- 🌍 Reasons to hide Tor usage from ISPs and network administrators
- 🚫 Misconceptions about Tor’s anonymity and the need for VPN usage
While doing this is generally not recommended, EFF does indeed suggest this option in some context: https://ssd.eff.org/module/choosing-vpn-thats-right-you#things-to-consider-what-vpns-don-t-do
I think there’s a huge difference between we cannot make a recommendation and you shouldn’t do this.
The tor FAQ says we cannot endorse this in all scenarios… “generally speaking”
https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-5/
The video makes a reasonable argument that if you can’t trust your ISP not to log, adding a VPN that has less incentive to log you makes sense and in worst case is the same as your ISP logging you so you lose nothing by trying it
Also, one should consider using Bridges (obfs4), so that your local ISP may not know you’re on Tor. Tails suggests that too. Using a VPS is not necessary a best option for that, though it might be a good option under some situation.
The video covers that as well, if your bridge becomes discovered later, log traffic can be used to identify your tour usage in the past. And if that’s not acceptable in your threat model, then a VPN still makes sense
Agreed. It’s an option worth considering (even EFF said so)—in fact a bridge itself could be run by something like Team Cymru (Augury), removed in TB v11.5.4. On the other hand, a VPN could collaborate with “them” so you’ll have to trust them… adding yet another unknown.
There are many ways to de-anonymoze Tor users indeed. Like Keystroke fingerprinting or Deep Packet Inspection… Usually a local ISP is not a big problem but it depends. The fact remains that even in a country with heavy Internet censorship, currently a nation-state can’t block Tor (via Bridge or Snowflake).
The issue of people in oppressive countries, where internet traffic is logged, is that using Tor won’t be blocked, but will mark somebody as a person of interest.
So there’s a lot of people on this planet who are connected to the internet and have a legal requirement to have their traffic logged. Those people absolutely should be using a VPN, the VPN cannot possibly be worse than their ISP
I never leave my VPN, so that’s the easier way anyway.