So in light of finding out that I can’t block an instance as a user, I am trying to find an instance that actually suits me better. Specifically I do not want to see anything relating to lemmygrad.ml and from what I can see, the main instances that block lemmygrad are lemmy.one which isn’t accepting new applications and beehaw which, while I don’t mind interacting with their instance at all, I don’t wish to join it for a couple reasons. There are others like midwest.social but I don’t live near there and while I know it is open to people that don’t live there it doesn’t exactly seem like where I would want to make an account that I plan on actually using.
So if I’m not mistaken, my options are basically to stay on lemmy.ml and deal with having to see posts and comments from lemmygrad.ml users, go to beehaw which I also don’t want to do, make a new instance for myself which I’m not going to do, or just leave and come back later when there are actually options that suit me better. Does that sound about right?
To counter that, I’ve seen plenty of lemmygrad users that were friendly and helpful.
I think the thing you have pointed out about users not having more control over instances has created some tension that probably bleeds over into how users interact with each other. You have users who are trying to avoid lemmygrad in their content feeds, which is fine, but have to be very vocal about it in order to get instances to block or remove federation linking with lemmygrad to better match the content these users want to see, even if lemmygrad users aren’t breaking any rules. For lemmygrad users, that seems kinda unfair that they’re getting excluded from federation simply because people don’t see eye to eye with their world view and don’t want to see much of the content they post regarding their worldviews. The lack of control given to users to block an instance quietly causes tension that shouldn’t need to be there.
I’m saying this as someone who actually went through the effort of blocking most of the active communities on lemmygrad, so I also don’t particularly want to see the content but I so far haven’t felt like I had a problem with seeing comments from users on lemmygrad. I would much rather have had the option to just block the instance with a single click than spend more time having to find and block numerous communities.
I really don’t even have a problem with seeing that particular ideology or perspective in content feeds, I don’t like echo chambers so I’d rather get some exposure to different ideas and content even if I don’t particularly agree with it rather than having some algorithm drive me into an echo chamber that causes problems in society and on a personal level mental health problems for people. But at the same time, I think that makes me not very fond of an instance that is centered around that identity, I think it encourages poor thought formation and poor personal growth for people to focus too much on what their identity is rather than just address individual ideas as they come on their own merit.
Edit to add: I’m no coder but I at least looked this up on github and here’s the issue. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2397 In that particular open issue it didn’t show support from nutomic or dessalines, but you can see there was a closed issue mentioned in there where dessalines did voice support for the idea. Only problem is there is 163 open issues with varying degrees of priority, and that one has already been open for a long time so it seems like it is considered lower priority than some other issues. Maybe if more contributors hop in it might get addressed.
I understand not wanting to be in an echo chamber and exposing myself to things outside of my bubble. That’s precisely why I want to be able to sort by all. I didn’t want to discuss specifics for the sake of not starting an argument (I’d much rather just block the instance altogether than even have this conversation) however, I do not want to interact with people who actively and openly support North Korea taking over South Korea and think Stalin was a swell guy. My beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with people like that even though my interactions with them may not always be inherently bad. If I go out in public and a Nazi holds the door for me, he is clearly trying to do something good in that moment. But quite frankly I’d MUCH rather not have to exist anywhere near that Nazi whether or not he is being nice to me in that moment. I feel the same way about people that think North Korea has a right to the entire Korean peninsula.
ETA: and to be clear, my issues with lemmygrad don’t end at their support of North Korea and Stalin. Those are just two examples I gave (with North Korea making me feel especially strongly). So please don’t try to argue the actual points of those two things. I have a fundamental disagreement with their philosophy that extends into many areas of discussion. I did go to lemmygrad and spent some some time reading through a bunch of communities and threads so I’m not just basing it off of one guy or something.
I don’t disagree with your points or perspective, personally I didn’t bother investigating much of the viewpoints in the communities on lemmygrad to the degree that you did. Mostly I knew it was more based around communism and beyond that I wasn’t necessarily interested in specifically what the communities were about.
My mention of echo chamber was not to criticize you for wanting to exclude, which is why I mentioned I had already blocked their communities. It was more of a general statement about how I blocked them, but overall my intention isn’t to just block everything I disagree with and put myself in an echo chamber. But what you described is why I was comfortable blocking it without doing the investigation you did. Because I saw on join lemmy that the instance was specifically labeled as “a collection of Marxist communities” and I disagree with the notion that people should collect together or identify collectively in that way because it often leads to the type of activity or thinking you described you encountered. People often begin to allow their identity to tell them what to think about something or view about something and in an echo chamber of other people doing that in my opinion it often ends up becoming like the flanderized characters on shows that run too long. It usually is something like ‘I’m an artist, so obviously I take the side of whatever I think most aligns with what I think being an artist is because it reinforces to me that I’m an artist’ and people don’t even consciously realize that they’re doing it. That’s a lot how flanderization of characters works. So without diving into lemmygrad, I could reasonably guess that the type of content or viewpoints you described would exist there because I understand how humans who gather together around identities end up behaving.
As far as Nazi’s holding the door or whatever the case is, if someone who identifies as a Nazi is capable of respectful and responsible behavior in public and follows all the rules of being out in public, then why should I restrict them from going out in public? Mind you I know you didn’t say you wanted to restrict them, I’m not claiming that was your argument, but if we try to compare it to IRL then generally speaking either you have to inconvenience yourself to avoid a Nazi in public, or you have to restrict a Nazi from going out in public to avoid them, there’s no realistic way to do it otherwise for IRL. Now on the internet, there’s an expectation that there is a middle ground because it’s not bound by the same limitations of real life and I think that’s what you’re saying that you’re wanting. Again, I also blocked their communities so I don’t think it’s crazy to want that, but the development of the platform is starting from scratch and as I mentioned in my other comment, there is an open issue for it on github but it could take time before it gets implemented.
I don’t know that there’s really much more to say on it other than dessalines seemed to OK the idea, and there’s sort of a “plan” for it to be implemented in that there’s an open issue on github, and all anyone can do is either be a developer and code the solution themselves, or wait patiently for someone else to do it. Beyond that, in the meantime the only other thing you can do is sign up on an instance that is not federated with lemmygrad. Sopuli.xyz and feddit.de were some others mentioned that aren’t federated with lemmygrad.
Yeah, we’re essentially in complete agreement. As far the irl Nazi example, I know it isn’t a perfect analogy because as you mention it isn’t possible to avoid that physical interaction unless I either avoid meeting them by restricting myself or by restricting them. To be clear, if I knew that there was a Nazi where I wanted to go then I would happily restrict myself by not going there to avoid them. Do I think that Nazis and their ideals should be openly shunned and even restricted in our society? Absolutely. But in the moment when I have to choose whether or not to approach them I am still happy to go out of my way to avoid them despite I not thinking that should have to in an ideal world. But I digress, irl and online are two different environments with very different rules that limit how they can work as well as different social norms. Fortunately, an online environment does allow me to choose who I want to interact with more easily without restricting myself or the other party as much typically.
I understand that up until now it’s been a pretty small community with a small team of devs devoting their time to it and that things take time to implement. I’m not in any way trying to say that the devs should have already done this or that I expect it to be done in a week or anything like that. I just want my frustrations and feedback to be known so that priorities can be adjusted if necessary depending on how many people agree with me. And if it was an active decision to not allow users to block instances to have that decision reconsidered hopefully.
If I can’t find a solution to my problem and there is no interest in creating a solution for an extended period of time then maybe the community just isn’t for me and that’s perfectly okay. I don’t have any illusions that things should always work the way that I want. But if widespread adoption is something that this community is interested in then feedback like this is extremely important I think. Other people will feel the same way as me. I don’t know how many but certainly a percentage of the people that come from reddit will feel this way. And if there is no solution in sight then they will consider leaving just like I am.